The Truth About Wayne Elise & Charisma Arts: The Sequel

by Editor on October 7, 2008

(cue dramatic music)

First of all, to address some of the earlier comments made by other readers, please note that my actual first article begins after the heading and the introductory paragraph that were both written by Donovan, and the intended title of what I originally wrote is “Farewell to Juggler”. My motivation for writing that article was purely emotional: I wanted to examine the feelings I have toward my former co-worker, and express the one that truly matters: my respect to him. I wanted to do that because, having occupied most of my days for a long and transforming period of time, Charisma Arts played tremendously important role in my life. I needed a sort of sentimental purification ritual to be able to let Charisma Arts go, so that I can move on without carrying any unnecessary weight. Hence, “Farewell to Juggler”.

I agree with Jaht, who pointed out that I write mostly about myself. Unfortunately, we’re all human (well, most of us) and therefore our ability to be objective is limited by our individual perception. If I speak on any subject, including the subject so much larger-than-life as Wayne “Juggler” Elise (see the photograph illustrating my original post), I can only speak about it through the distorting lens of my subjective experience. That’s why, technically, what you are reading should be titled “Dimitri Vorontzov expressing his highly subjective opinion about Wayne Elise & Charisma Arts”. Read it at your own risk and filter it through your on experience.

I must say I’m amused that today, almost year into my solo instructorship, I still act as a Charisma Arts spokesman. Isn’t it astonishing how even now I can boost Charisma Arts’ sales with one accurately placed blog post? My very good friend (he is one of my best students, and a current Charisma Arts instructor) called me yesterday and made me notice the ingeniously funny step taken by Juggler’s company. Soon after my article appeared on Seduction Chronicles, some wise person from Charisma Arts management (I’m using “wise” in the sense of “silly”) dumped their shopping cart right on the home page of the company website! Hey, any publicity is good publicity! Then I guess someone even wiser (see above) realized it makes the company look a little desperate for making a buck, so the shopping cart on the front page was replaced with a blog article by one of the new instructors (funny though… I remember writing THAT VERY article well over two years ago. Just kidding. I wrote a different article entirely… but it had a lot of the same words).

Here, this will make it legit. Dear readers, if you’d like to visit Charisma Arts ultra-high-tech shopping cart and purchase Juggler’s best-selling ebook, please follow this link:

http://www.charismaarts.com/how-to-meet-and-connect/

Phew… Okay. I payed my dues to society.

Now, the promised Truth (= my subjective opinion, remember?)

You might find this boring. I wish I could electrify the readers by saying that Charisma Arts is just a cover-up for the extensive international drug trafficking operation run by Dominic “Wayne Elise” Pappalardo and his cynical henchmen, and that all the former “instructors” are currently sleeping with fishes after taking a cement bath – but that wouldn’t be accurate (they were shot in the head.)

Okay, jokes aside. The truth is (I think) that after Neil Strauss had published “The Game” in 2005, the book had generated sudden explosive increase of interest to the dating community. Juggler had contributed a short chapter to “The Game”, in which he poked friendly fun at Neil Strauss, kinda in the same way as I poke fun at Juggler now. With the book on the New York Times bestseller list, suddenly Juggler found himself attacked by more prospective students than he could possibly handle. There were people to teach, and not enough time to teach them. So Juggler raised the prices for his instruction, and hired a few guys to teach the bootcamps.

(What I’m saying is, the market grew very abruptly, and it sent Charisma Arts on the extensive path of business development, meaning that the company almost instantly expanded its sphere of influence and the number of employees, before the owner could actually determine the unique principles for operating his business. You can’t blame Juggler for allowing to let his business get out of hands for a while. When success hit him, the man was a street comedian, not a career banker, for goodness sake. No wonder that in the beginning of is business career Juggler had to grope his way in the fog (insert your on groping-related pun here).

I think Juggler is the kind of guy who easily becomes drawn to people and who is fast to form friendships. So quite naturally when he had working positions to fill, he offered to some of his friends the opportunity to have a cool, fun and unusual job that involves travel, partying and helping other guys. It makes sense, doesn’t it?

The problem is, a good dating instructor is not easy to come by. There are some exceptions, but normally it takes months to train a beginner to get good at dating, and it takes much longer to train a guy how to teach that stuff. Some of the members of the first generation of Charisma Arts crew were great instructors. Others were just random guys who started working for Juggler simply because he liked them. This lead to the generally uneven quality of the overall curriculum. Speaking as one of Charisma Arts former clients: a Charisma Arts weekend bootcamp I took a few years ago SUCKED, big time. I’d like to emphasize that it was NOT taught by Juggler, and that later most of the bootcamps I had the chance to witness were high-class. I certainly hope that the situation has further improved these days.

Another problem is, this is a tough job. Even very talented guys, if they are mainly attracted to the exciting sides of the dating instructor profession, such as travel, partying, meeting interesting people and (let’s face it) getting plenty of action, to say nothing of (let’s face it some more) getting paid big bucks – such instructors are bound to burn out very quickly. So they quit.

Some people don’t burn out, though. Who? Just those guys who develop actual keen concern about their students’ happiness. I don’t want to make it sound pompous (there are too many guys in the community already whose writing sounds like they’re curing cancer or ending the world hunger, or at least running for President, whereas, to boil it down to the basics, what we all actually do is teach horny guys how to get laid) – but frankly, it does take a certain serious degree of genuine care for others to be a dating instructor. The instructors who have that quality, have staying power. Others don’t.

Third problem: I already said that I think Juggler is a man who forms strong friendships quickly. I also think he might be quick to cut off a friend when he suspects disloyalty. Perhaps too quick, but that’s just my opinion. I think Juggler’s personal code of ethics is so extremely high that he expects a lot from other people, so naturally most humans end up disappointing him… and you know how it is among us, professional alpha males: “I find it hard to forgive the follies and vices of others, or their offenses against me. My good opinion, once lost, is lost forever”, and so on (that was a quote from Mr. Darcy, the hero of “Pride and Prejudice”… highly recommended!) I suppose this should explain why, to the best of my knowledge, most of the sacked former Charisma Arts instructors only found out about their expulsion when they arrived to teach a scheduled bootcamp and met a replacement instructor who would refuse to speak to them (I’m almost not exaggerating). I think the “Now Firing!” business policy and the boycott of all the formerly praised instructors were the only two things in my experience of Charisma Arts that hinted on the unusual (possibly alien) form of intelligence behind its facade.

We shouldn’t forget that any moderately developed dating instruction service has two major aspects: teaching methodology and business. The two are interconnected, and they tend to transform overtime. I believe that the last phase of Charisma Arts development required Wayne Elise to intensify his business. This meant to make the “Juggler Method” brand easier to recognize. That’s why from the certain moment the company needed only people who would teach dating exactly the way Juggler wanted them to teach, without any deviation from the “general line”. So all the Trotskyists were purged and all heretics burned, and that’s why these days anyone can see that Charisma Arts staff enjoys the unity of opinion that is quite rare in modern society outside of North Korea.

I think the current (I think I shouldn’t use the word “totalitarian” here) state of Juggler’s company is the typical “opposite extreme”, a recoil from a formerly way-too-liberal business model. I believe it must be a passing stage, and when Charisma Arts finds its center it has a chance to finally become a truly successful enterprise it deserves to be (provided they fire a few more people. Only joking.)

I can relate to Juggler’s titanic (no kidding!) efforts to make his company work, and I understand that trial and error is often the only way to learn the ropes. I am certain that Juggler means well. I think he is motivated by the genuine desire to serve his students to the best of his ability, and that’s what counts. Wisdom comes when we learn to judge people by their intentions, and not by the outcome of their actions. I find Wayne Elise extremely likable. He might not be perfect, but no one ever is (the only known exception: Neil Strauss). Again and again: I feel a lot of respect and gratitude to Wayne Elise for who he is.

Summary: Wayne Elise is a good guy and Charisma Arts is a good company.

Such is my subjective opinion on this matter. I did my best to express it truthfully.

Best,

Dimitri Vorontzov

P.S. I am a bit ashamed of my quip about how the letters in “Wayne Elise” may be rearranged to spell “a senile yew”. I take it back. In fact, these letters can only be rearranged to spell “Alien? We? Yes!”

Read Part 1: The Truth Behind Wayne Elise

{ 15 comments… read them below or add one }

jaht October 9, 2008 at 4:08 am

your topic title “Farewell to Juggler” was indeed a better choice for that article, either way i enjoyed reading them.

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BasilRansom October 16, 2008 at 11:21 am

Your article is a mindfuck. (You revert too much to writing in parentheses and using infantile punctuation!) Didactic and dorkish humor. Weak, what with the constant use of qualifiers like “I think.”

I don’t have too much invested in this whole ordeal. That said, Juggler could have written this article way better. He’s a very good writer.

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Dimitri Vorontzov October 17, 2008 at 6:59 am

BasilRansom,

thank you very much for your comment. You are right, my writing needs improving. I also agree that Wayne is good with words – written and spoken. That’s actually one of the reasons why I’ve placed the link to his ebook in my article. I also like your writing stile; I THINK it is refreshingly straightforward, to say the least (I hope you don’t mind my using the parenthesis here… after all, you used them in your comment, too!) I appreciate it that you refused to treat my writing with condescending phony forgiveness of the fact that English isn’t my first language: I like it when people make highest demands to whatever I do.

Let’s not fight. There’s a lot of fighting going on in the world already. Just do your shit, man. It’ll get better one day.

Best,

Dimitri Vorontzov

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Will December 27, 2008 at 1:52 pm

hahahah hey what’s up Dimitri.. been a while
great write-up. saw Juggler a few weeks back in Boston

hit me up if you’re ever in Boston

your former student,
Will.

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Ramirez January 31, 2009 at 9:34 am

No one noticed but two more coaches left Juggler last few weeks: Miq and Troy.

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puaaok February 3, 2009 at 3:37 pm

looks likeone more Jugglers instructor John was just taken off the website as well and it seems that his other instructor Greg is on the way out because hes removed from the bootcamp schedule

anyone knows what’s up with that?

Juggler shitting down his company or what??

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J February 12, 2009 at 3:24 pm

That article is WAY too long to read

Anyone have cliff notes version?

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Sgouros June 12, 2009 at 2:43 pm

Who cares long short paragraphs and …? God! I’m not a grammar policen.
This is seduction chronicles, not grammar chronicles.
If you like to check grammar for free, give me your mail, I got lot of (useful) work for you. If you are only a troll, Donovan, could you moderate? Thanks.

I found the article interesting and thoughtfull, like many of Dimitri’s writing in CA (I have saved, unfortunately not all of them, but many of them) like his “My Juggler Method” and lots of posts of him.

This put some light in how CA works.
What I can criticize is that maybe this is little gossip.
But even if it is, I’m interested anyway.

Thanks Dimitri. So sad getaten dot com is down.

Bests.

Sgouros

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corleone June 23, 2009 at 5:39 am

The countdown started for you Dimitri after your article about the dark Juggler method…(at least that’s my opinion)
I also think that you owes us an explanation about that article.Is darkJM “real”?what did you really mean?or was just a marketing tactic?

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James from Charisma Arts August 2, 2009 at 3:49 am

JAMES STILL WORKS AND COACHES FOR CHARISMA ARTS!

The above comment is wrong. I have coached for two and half years.

I spend the biggest chunk of my time in Sydney, Australia, but I have clients I travel to coach all over the world.

You can see over 50 Client Testimonials of people who have spent a weekend with me, plus all my posts at http://www.jamessocialcoach.com/.

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James from Charisma Arts August 3, 2009 at 9:43 pm

Oh, I just did a talk with Wayne in Sydney two weeks ago. He kept the packed house laughing continuously for close to two hours and then hung around at least another hour answering the guys questions.

Also, Wayne has hired a guy named Dan as Charisma Art’s General Manager. Dan has considerable commercial acumen, as well as sales and public speaking experience. He has lots of energy and is incredibly passionate about the difference we make to guys lives with our coaching.

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Rags August 30, 2009 at 3:08 am

Dimitri,

You’re a bad ass but I wish that you would just talk straight to us.

Without skipping around the topic or mincing words, how do you really see Charisma Arts?

Everyone knows that Juggler isn’t Satan. You can tell it how it is.

Peace,

D

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puggy March 8, 2010 at 6:19 pm

not that anybody’s interested but looks like juggler just annihilated the rest of his instructors including james who was posting comments in this thread

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Peaceful Warrior July 26, 2010 at 8:54 pm

Hi Dimitri,

I think your experience and mine with Mr. Elise has to do with what the Juggler method is preaching. Fake liking people until you can comfortably get rid of them and move on towards getting what you want.

I had the shock myself after the convo camp when everything was great, we even became friends, then he wouldn’t even answer my email.

There’s no hard feelings on my part, my life changed for the better, especially after applying paragraph # 1, but most people don’t realize that manipulation works both ways and that’s when their feelings are hurt.

Please let me know if there is a way to contact you Dimitri, I’m from the same part of Europe like yourself struggling to make it in North America and would like to talk to you. Will NOT make any demands or requests.

Take care, awesome article, answered lots of questions I had.

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Josh July 5, 2011 at 8:44 am

Hey Dimitri, great article !
I went on a charisma arts bootcamp a few years ago and it sucked big time, the biggest waste of money I ever spent. I ended up getting a refund off Juggler but found him (and i had met and spoken to him in person several times before i went on bootcamp and really liked him) very unapproachable and just wanted to distance himself as much as possible from the bad situation. I found that I learnt far more from reading your posts. I am not in the community anymore as I dont need the help but I want to say thanks for your invaluable insights ! :)

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