anywayz, i just want to make one comment. Something that I’ve noticed. The “Guru’s” are intune with woman. They know what to do, etc etc…but so far all this “infighting” has shown me that they don’t have people skills!!!! I mean Ross Jeffries (yes your old…and you’ve been in the game before i was even sperm probably) keeps fuelling the fire against himself…all you have to do, is laff off your competition..if you’re better and you BELIEVE your better it’ll come through…trashing people..or trying to “show off” with youtube videos just amplifies that you have insecurities about your own game…best example on how to behave…look at how microsoft deals with opensource…they keep quiet and dish out awesome new products…and they still dominate the market…just do marketing dude…don’t do retailation…ok thats my 2c…

I have seen him sarge a girl in an outback restaraunt in Vacaville,CA and it was no different than David Deangelo Approaching her… Cocky funny and busting her balls…

He claimed he was staying true to his Swede Girlfriend and its understandable and he probably could of got this girl in the hay if he wanted thats a possibility but the staff eventually kept switching waitresses and they seemed to be getting creeped out by him and I was afraid they would kick us out on the count of his strange behavior..

Before we went to the outback I met up with him at his hotel where i saw him in the lobby and he was consulting a student… I had the creepiest vibe infact i a part of me wanted to leave and probably should of.

As we were waiting in the lobby for others Ross started flipping out like some paranoid Scitzo wanting us to be like teh Secret service checking all the corners of the hotel for people out to get him.

He kept asking us to check up on some middle aged lady with a newborn child getting a hotel room like some stalker because he thought she was going to hurt him or something…

Even another vacation middle aged married couple he made them feel very uncomfortable.. i didnt know whether to call 911 or not the guys going to crack any minute…

We were all afraid of him and he could stop staring at me I almost puched him a few times in the outback for indirectly insulting me and attempting making fun of me in front of others, it too alot for me to hold myself back…

His Manners are extremely terrible.. I cannot understand why this gentleman is not in the mental hospital… Is far beyond me…

I do thank him for his comapssion and help along me through the years and I hope things get better for him..

He does deserve some award for bring SS to the world and his dedication to it but the guy is batshit crazy and extremely dangerous…

I have learned that Ross and another co developer abuse Nlp techniques an covert hypnosis and give harmful suggestions in there material to coerce and sabotage efforts of success in his students to keep them in a never ending loop of almost successes to keep them in his herd and under his control…

Since i have left these two My life is much better and more satisfying and my skills have accelerate tremendously…

I still watch alot of his products but now that I am aware of harmfull suggestions I delete it and take the positve and curriculum from the courses…

as a newbie stay way from them its not worth the mental danger it can cause..

I am an advanced student and I understand hypnosis and well trained at it…

My suggestion for the more hypnosis based PUA training is Vince Kelvin….

vinces Anxiety approaching products ARE THE BEST ON THE MARKET!! in my opinion….

So my take on SS is I dont like his approaches and I dont like his first stages of game… so to put it in a mystery method metaphor SS is only good for use at c1 to s3…

I like Deangelos openers and Myteries openers the best…Vinces are great also…

Infact I dont even open much anymore, I dont have to.

As for the new SS 3.0 Ross uses PUA tactics in his new model

????????????

and also Loaded with negative suggestion…

also whats up with a shirt that says go fuck youself when you are using NLP to train your students??????

thats not very smart….

Just my honest opinion….

Just look at all the dudes out there now making tons of money from seduction and claiming to be guru’s…..how do we know they are gurus and not snake oil merchants alot of the material is recycled and packaged differently to give the illusion of authenticity. Seduction is not rocket science nor is it a vehicle to abuse women. I can see why the likes of Sean Messenger is leaving as seduction is no longer a community its an industry and so called guru’s are nothing of the sort and people who buy these products deserve to be ripped off.

RJ has valid points, but Sean doesn’t promise anything along the lines of speed seduction. He teaches a different kind of thing. Lots of guys go from speed seduction to his stuff and find value for them in it. I’m one of them. Yeah, I did two full RJ courses and now I like seans work too. To be blunt, RJ takes this stuff too seriously, like he’s obsessed with saving these poor boys and sean messenger is basically gaston in beauty and the beast. I don’t mean to invalidate his valid and interesting points, but there’s room for everybody. Lots of people probably go from lv03 on to find value in SS.

If he were promising in his sales letters something else than what he is doing, then maybe RJ should be calling him out. But all you are doing RJ is calling out yourself as a hard to get along with person. I used to be like you, get the same kind of rep from the general public. For me, I started listening to too much hippie music I guess. Now I’m nice to everyone even when they are unfairly crtical of me, and people see me as fun and genuinely loving and focued on what is important about life. getting along well in a community

I would like to see that.

You and Sean in a debate.

It’s a pity you can not make it until now to the Real Man Conference 2009. It would be so easy to organise with Sean already in Europe than.

Anyway I keep hoping to get you once on our stage in the Netherlands.

Cu,

SmoothDoc

Anyway. I’m pretty new in this whole thing, but I’m trying to absorb as much as possible from it. The Game, Venusian Arts, Free podcasts, you name it.. I’m on it. And also some of Seans’ material. Baseline, I just go through everything, don’t have any preference and I think I have an objective view on all of it.

Just like Sean, I’m also considerably better looking then the RJ or the Guy in the video, but that doesn’t mean AT ALL I get girls merely on my looks! I’ve always been to a guys only high school, all my friends had girlfriends, when I didn’t even have balls to approach or talk, I was shy, etc etc.

In a nutshell, I’m living proof Sean has a fair audience: When reading Seans’ posts, I always kind of felt his flow and knew what he meant. I felt like I was one of the few that could relate. I drew lessons from it. I saw him as older and wiser. I think it may have even made me a better man. I also like the variety of subjects he is covering. From seduction to breaking up like a man. Who else covers this anyway? For me breaking up with girls is sometimes harder then seducing them..

So as a conclusion Ross, just like products have different target groups, this scene may have different audiences. You as a marketing minded guy should know this.

DO IT!

RJ

-Jordan Harbinger
http://www.pickuppodcast.com
http://www.theartofcharm.com

One time ago, I watched another free video sample from Ross, he said that this guys (his student) is a complete loser when it comes to women, divorced, always get rejected, and then after studying Ross’s material, this guy transformed in just 24 hours, I’m quite surprises, BUT … this video make me laugh really bad eventually, because this guy on that video, successfully slept with a stripper, LOL!! Not, with a mature – well educated women that has her together.

I’m not surprised, LOL. On that video, that stripper even showing her’s breast on the camera crew, can you imagine that? If she can do that, that is really nothing can prevent Ross’s material / his student to get laid with that women. Seriously, and Ross said that he successfully transformed this guy into ladies man.

Personally, I don’t really have personal problem with Ross’s material, but always seing him want to be the best in the seduction world by beating other people is not the correct answer, I think he already heard this old saying “Raise the sea level so every ships can arise” or something like that … I heard that quote from David DeAngelo himself …

Oohh yeah … one question for you Ross, what you did with David DeAngelo’s girlfriend? Can you explain to us? Why David DeAngelo kick you out from his “Guru” list? LOL.

-Sasuke-

the fact is your only being an ass because you want to shove your own products down my throat.

I will just allow my work to speak for itself.

Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMPYBv1Nimg

And this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjtDRBp0Cq0

Former suicidal virgin gets laid with 16 women AND bangs a lesbian:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlOgzsXCvgo

When you can get results like this for YOUR students, you can open your mouth and criticize.

RJ
http://www.speedseduction.biz

Now seriously, I don’t teach, I don’t have my own company, I am learning this stuff on my own and applying it on my own. I am entitled to criticize Ross Jeffries whenever I feel like it and he can do diddly squat about it. He posts video interviews of his students claiming results as though that proves a damn thing. Show me a hidden camera video filmed by an independent source of his students going from opening to f-closing and then maybe I will believe his load of shit nonsense.

Instead of wasting his time surfing the internet and criticizing Sean Messenger, me and whoever else is out there, he should be going out there and meeting new people or bettering himself in some way and not acting like a freaking 5 year old having a tantrum because people have a negative opinion of him after he acted like a complete imbecile on national television.

Sean(and the rest) can’t effectively help/teach WBAFCs.

I’m the only one that can.

Say what you want, my stuff works.

Here is proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcMoyvUrYIo

And here is MORE proof:

http://www.speedseduction.biz/resources.php

Oh, how about THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6KwmEY04Ko

My work speaks for itself.

It may not be comforting to hear that not everyone’s work has value even if they mean well. But it doesn’t change the truth of it.

RJ

Jeffries says, “Sean, your teachings are not effective for WBAFCs,
mine is much better”.

Sean replies, “i’m for what i’m for, but i respect your opinion”.

Jeffries is probably right.
which isn’t to say that Sean and others like him aren’t useful to more advanced students, or that they have absolute nothing to offer the WBAFCs.