Ross Jeffries Vs Sean Messenger

April 22nd, 2008 • Donovan • Related • Filed Under •

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It looks as though Ross Jeffries is again using his guerrilla “controversy” tactics to get more publicity in a world that now has a 0% carefactor for him. He’s the man that time forgot. This time instead of against David Wygant it’s against Sean Messenger. While Sean gets old at times with his free love approach to things, I find this a good piece of back and forth that reveals even more about Ross:

Here’s what went down on Sean’s blog:

Dude…Sean…..do you even have a triple digit IQ? Listen asshole, you get women on your looks only. You don’t belong teaching… you belong on a beer truck.

Then Sean…

Good to hear from you, my friend. For those who don’t know, RJ is the founder of the pickup community, and a great inspiration to me. I understand completely your ferocity at defending the teaching from total frauds and rip-off artists.

I’m just on the Path like everyone else and sharing what I know, and I totally agree with you that looks matter. What you want in a woman you should cultivate in yourself. If you want her to take care of her body, to smile, to look her best, and to project a happy, friendly vibe, then it starts with you.

It doesn’t matter what you look like. There are literally millions of guys better looking than me (look at that cheesy mustache, for god’s sake!). But there’s a difference between being good-looking and looking good.

Do your best to present your best self. Just as you wouldn’t go to an important job interview looking like shit, nor should you content yourself with looking your worst if you want to draw attractive women into your life.

Anyone can go to the gym and get in shape. Anyone can get a good haircut (just see my man Fabian here in Miami Beach… best cut EVER, and all for $18!). Anyone can find clothes that flatter them.

Then you combine that appearance with a genuine Love for people, with enthusiasm, and with interest, and you will attract quality women into your life.

Ross retorts:

Wow. What profound advice. Look your best. Smile. Be well groomed.

And you think people should PAY to hear this?

Where is the originality? Where is the impact? Where is the power?

But you missed my point, Sean, so I’ll try to make it again:

Since you are good looking and have ALWAYS done well with women, you can’t possibly understand the problems, blocks and barriers of guys who are not in your situation.

This is a matter of what you understand, not your intent.

Look here:

This guy got laid with 16 women at the time of recording this video, and one of them was a lesbian. He was a virgin when he first got my stuff and his social life consisted of taking a walk, once a day, outside of his house.

Can you really help guys like THIS? There are more of them than you can possibly hope to count.

Your haters here can attack me until they are blue in the face, but let’s see anyone match these results.

You don’t transform guys like the one in this video with trite advice to dress better or go to the gym. And you, having always been a natural, can’t possibly understand the world of a guy like this.

And so you can’t help him, or millions more like him.

But you can and do distract him and guys like him with advice that may work for someone with YOUR experience, but could NEVER work for him(or them).

That is my real issue with you, Wygant, Zan Perrion, etc.

You guys are like the 6 foot 10, 350 lb guy who tells the little guys how to win a fight in a bar.

“Fuck that fancy shit. Just swing on them and hit them once!”

You mean well. I get that. But you don’t get what it truly takes to help guys who are truly trapped. And so you are getting the way of the help they truly need.

And to the haters: when YOU can get results with your teaching like the guy in this video got from mine, then you can open up your mouths.

Finishing with Sean…

Thank you for coming on here. I got nothing but Love and Respect for you, not only as the Founding Father of this whole community, but also for speaking your mind and damn the consequences. If only more men had the courage of their convictions.

I agree with you, again, that starting out with some genetic advantages makes it tougher for some students to relate. But I stand by my work and my experience. I NEVER did well with women until I learned how to relax. I was the girl-crazy kid who would pen painful poems and love notes to cheerleaders, and never work up the nerve just to ask a girl out.

I’ve been in tremendous slumps and gone through a lot of periods where I thought “damnit, if I was better-looking this would be easy. Life is so unfair.”

I think the point I want to make is wherever you start, YOU decide where to go from there. Listen, if you are 4′9″ and have one eye in the middle of your forehead and hair covering your entire body, you will not get the same immediate response from women that Brad Pitt does.

But that doesn’t mean you can’t do the best with what you have by improving not only your appearance, but your posture, your breathing, your smile, your ability to make others smile, your emotional openness and depth, and your capacity for Love without conditions or expectations.

That’s what I will keep exploring and writing about until my dying day. We all have untapped potential to Give Love, and it’s our sacred responsibility to do that to our best until we draw our last breath.

I’m going on the record again and saying that I don’t think Ross Jeffries is the “Father” of the Seduction Community. Did he play a role? Sure. But if anyone has had the most influence on what the Seduction Community stands for now it would be a combination of Mystery, David Deangelo and Neil Strauss, not some 80’s hypnosis teacher who flames people that try and make a difference in guys lives. Maybe I’m just slightly creeped out by him not having upper teeth. Ross must be struggling with business if he’s making all this controversy. Is he stressed about things?

Popularity: 13% [?]

There Are 12 Responses So Far. »

Comment by m0in10nz on 22 April 2008:

http://rossjeffries.justgotowned.com
Comment by sting on 22 April 2008:

Story minus BS -

Jeffries says, “Sean, your teachings are not effective for WBAFCs,
mine is much better”.

Sean replies, “i’m for what i’m for, but i respect your opinion”.

Jeffries is probably right.
which isn’t to say that Sean and others like him aren’t useful to more advanced students, or that they have absolute nothing to offer the WBAFCs.
Comment by Ross Jeffries on 22 April 2008:

Exactly right.

Sean(and the rest) can’t effectively help/teach WBAFCs.

I’m the only one that can.

Say what you want, my stuff works.

Here is proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcMoyvUrYIo

And here is MORE proof:

http://www.speedseduction.biz/resources.php

Oh, how about THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6KwmEY04Ko

My work speaks for itself.

It may not be comforting to hear that not everyone’s work has value even if they mean well. But it doesn’t change the truth of it.

RJ
Comment by Yummy Stale Bread on 22 April 2008:

At this point I just feel Ross Jeffries is a nitwit. He posted the following comment in response to my review of the Dr. Phil Show:

I will just allow my work to speak for itself.

Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMPYBv1Nimg

And this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjtDRBp0Cq0

Former suicidal virgin gets laid with 16 women AND bangs a lesbian:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlOgzsXCvgo

When you can get results like this for YOUR students, you can open your mouth and criticize.

RJ
http://www.speedseduction.biz

Now seriously, I don’t teach, I don’t have my own company, I am learning this stuff on my own and applying it on my own. I am entitled to criticize Ross Jeffries whenever I feel like it and he can do diddly squat about it. He posts video interviews of his students claiming results as though that proves a damn thing. Show me a hidden camera video filmed by an independent source of his students going from opening to f-closing and then maybe I will believe his load of shit nonsense.

Instead of wasting his time surfing the internet and criticizing Sean Messenger, me and whoever else is out there, he should be going out there and meeting new people or bettering himself in some way and not acting like a freaking 5 year old having a tantrum because people have a negative opinion of him after he acted like a complete imbecile on national television.
Comment by jaht on 23 April 2008:

ross you need to find a new hobby instead of bashing other so called pua’s who may or may not be good at what they do.

the fact is your only being an ass because you want to shove your own products down my throat.
Comment by Sasuke on 23 April 2008:

Seriously, Ross need some hug, I mean A LOT OF HUG!! Because, today, nobody really care about his’s material / teaching. So … he want to create his own publicty by mocking and bad mouthing other “Gurus”, so a lot of people can still hear his name and his website, and maybe can capture some dumb jackass to buy Ross’s product. A FREE ADVERTISING!! LOL. If you paid a close attention to the guys / students that Ross posting on as his free video sample, you will noticed that that guys don’t have self respect, they didn’t take care their hyiene, their clothing, a really bad body language … like 5 years old kid, they even accept that they being make like a fool by Ross, LOL –> That guy that wear red t-shirt and showing his hairy chest at the end of his video.

One time ago, I watched another free video sample from Ross, he said that this guys (his student) is a complete loser when it comes to women, divorced, always get rejected, and then after studying Ross’s material, this guy transformed in just 24 hours, I’m quite surprises, BUT … this video make me laugh really bad eventually, because this guy on that video, successfully slept with a stripper, LOL!! Not, with a mature - well educated women that has her together.

I’m not surprised, LOL. On that video, that stripper even showing her’s breast on the camera crew, can you imagine that? If she can do that, that is really nothing can prevent Ross’s material / his student to get laid with that women. Seriously, and Ross said that he successfully transformed this guy into ladies man.

Personally, I don’t really have personal problem with Ross’s material, but always seing him want to be the best in the seduction world by beating other people is not the correct answer, I think he already heard this old saying “Raise the sea level so every ships can arise” or something like that … I heard that quote from David DeAngelo himself …

Oohh yeah … one question for you Ross, what you did with David DeAngelo’s girlfriend? Can you explain to us? Why David DeAngelo kick you out from his “Guru” list? LOL.

-Sasuke-
Comment by Sasuke on 23 April 2008:

Btw Ross … I don’t know if this is where you are going, but I will call you by your nick name from now on … which is … “The Angry Seduction Nerd” …
Comment by Chunner on 23 April 2008:

Ross Jeferies has bad breath.
Comment by jaht on 24 April 2008:

yea sasuke, maybe hes related to this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjUz8IT0CYg
Comment by Jordan Harbinger on 24 April 2008:

Wow, lol, maybe we should invite Sean to The Art of Charm LA bootcamp on May 2-4. It’d be a battle Royale.

-Jordan Harbinger
http://www.pickuppodcast.com
http://www.theartofcharm.com
Comment by Ross Jeffries on 24 April 2008:

Do it Jordan! How about me and Stephane Hemon vs. Messenger and Wygant in a tag-team steel-cage grudge match?

DO IT!

RJ
Comment by Rob on 30 April 2008:

I just read on Sean’s blog he’s quitting the scene.
Hope it doesn’t have to do with this.

Anyway. I’m pretty new in this whole thing, but I’m trying to absorb as much as possible from it. The Game, Venusian Arts, Free podcasts, you name it.. I’m on it. And also some of Seans’ material. Baseline, I just go through everything, don’t have any preference and I think I have an objective view on all of it.

Just like Sean, I’m also considerably better looking then the RJ or the Guy in the video, but that doesn’t mean AT ALL I get girls merely on my looks! I’ve always been to a guys only high school, all my friends had girlfriends, when I didn’t even have balls to approach or talk, I was shy, etc etc.

In a nutshell, I’m living proof Sean has a fair audience: When reading Seans’ posts, I always kind of felt his flow and knew what he meant. I felt like I was one of the few that could relate. I drew lessons from it. I saw him as older and wiser. I think it may have even made me a better man. I also like the variety of subjects he is covering. From seduction to breaking up like a man. Who else covers this anyway? For me breaking up with girls is sometimes harder then seducing them..

So as a conclusion Ross, just like products have different target groups, this scene may have different audiences. You as a marketing minded guy should know this.