The battle of the century has erupted.
In an unprovoked attack on David Wygant, Ross Jeffries delivered his typical rebuking:
Wygant, could you help a guy like this:
I actually worked with your former client Jeremiah. He said you took him for nearly $10,000 and helped him not one bit; that he actually had to chase you down to get him to return your calls.
After two sessions with me(for which I didn’t even charge him, I was so angry at your conning him) he lost his viriginity finally, at age 29.
It’s guys like you that really piss me off. I would love to knock your sorry ass out of business.
RJ
David responded
If this insult came from someone I respect as a man then it would sting.
But from a man that hates everyone in the industry I find it actually quite comical!
As for Jeremiah I worked with him for 2 hours and the last time I checked I do not charge 5000 an hour.
So besides some anger management issues Ross also is incapable of simple addition!
This is why I am in business so men have a choice and don’t have to deal with angry dating gurus like Ross!!
Its all about a choice and I am glad that ross was able to get Jeremiah laid.
My style is the total opposite of Ross and the great thing about this industry is that men have a choice of whom to work with.
If someone wants to learn seduction from Ross then go for it.
But he needs to get his facts straight, jeremiah is 26 and was not a virgin.
Its funny but Ross seems to hate everyone in this industry.
Do you think it reflects how he feels about himself.
Life is a mirror.
That’s all for me.
I guess it’s that time of year again when we can all get ready for summer and have a small dose of dating guru rivalry. If it came down to it, whose side would you be on? Who have you had better results with, or who would you want to learn from?
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I studied with Ross once but didn’t hang around for long. I never found an outlet before where I thought he would read what I wrote. I never posted my thoughts on his internal forum because he had a fierce temper and was likely to debar you for life. So finally I’ve spotted this opportunity – here goes Ross…
Ross, you pretty much started this fantastic movement of empowering men with regard to women and re-engineered brilliant concepts for an amazing purpose. I’ve also seen you use your skills to change peoples lives, within minutes. Huge kudos for that man.
But one time I saw a side of you that sickened me and dramatically changed my view of you. You were abusive, bullying and belittling to a chick. And later you acted like nothing happened, and you weren’t countenancing any feedback. So you learnt nothing from the episode, and thus I presume you are still to this day doing that same shit. Some of the things I subsequently read about you confirmed the impression that it was continuing. Dunno if you are still “nexting” chicks, even though I notice you suggest otherwise in your literature, but that was definitely symptomatic of your approach.
I don’t know what caused you to become like that. I can only think you were particularly badly treated by chicks as a young guy. If so, I would have expected you would have done some self-assessment to rectify that. I’m sure you already realise that the energy you give out is directly related to nearly all the energy and respect you receive back, seeing as energy is one of your principle tenets.
When I first met you, you provided a fairly good impression of great energy (good wisdom, highly intelligent, extremely empathatic). After the above episode, I saw the core energy you were masking – a high degree of aggression and lacking respect for other people, as I say, quite possibly based on a bit of sensitivity underneath (I believe you did once compare yourself to rhinoceros testicles).
I’ve since come across other guys who don’t know 1/100th of the stuff you know about NLP or blissnosis or speed seduction. Yet the energy they were projecting was pretty much blissing all the chicks around them. And they didn’t leave me with a cold feeling in the gut watching them interact with chicks. The difference between them and you was that they were genuine. You were just saying it.
My personal opinion about why you’ve not changed is that you’ve mixed “highly intelligent” with “great person” or “great lover”. As a result, you think your ability to keep finding and unlocking keys is a substitute for great charisma and great energy. Nope. Again the difference is being “genuine”.
I’d hardly come across your name since, so wasn’t sure whether you you had ever changed your game. However, from the above, albeit well-meaning reaction on your part, I notice you still seem to be showing that same aggression, so I can only assume that those issues are still there.
Maybe you don’t give a shit about this pseudo psycho-analysis, that’s up to you, although I wouldn’t give a tinkers cuss if I never hooked up with the same Ross Jeffries I knew before. Its just a well-meant message to you, in the only forum I could find, suggesting that maybe you could do with a bit of the same introspective energy analysis that you preach.
I’d like to read about you finding some measure of happiness within yourself, and getting the kudos you deserve. As its going, I’m resigned to reading about the increasingly curmudgeonly ss founder continuing down his solitary path. I hope not, but that’s your choice. Seems fairly intelligent to me that the easier path would be to work out what these “genuine” guys have got that you are just not “getting”. You’re no longer a pioneer so that’s no longer any excuse for the arrows in the back.
I’d even think there’s no reason to stop or change your work, but I can see every reason for changing that nasty little sensitivity that keeps popping up from time to time.
Anyway, this isn’t a criticism of the other 95% of you Ross. Its just a pointer from an old client who found that little 5% just a bit too unbearable to accept the other 95%.
On that note, I’ll end with best wishes of “peace” and piece to you too.
Um. a few points 1. Ross has the ability to fix peoples problems, i think because when you use techniques you don’t have to “completely” change who you are(you will with time, for course. he has the best “inner game” stuff)so he can change you cause he’s kind of connected to those problems because he never had to COMPLETELY fix his inner game to get laid, although her probably has? +he can manup and say he can’t help you
2. You, in my opinion, have to already have some stuff down before you get “total” success with david wygant. you can look at that dude and you’ll probably think “wow, no way he could get laid with davd wygant stuff”
3. It’s all about who got who laid. he got himself laid and he did it with Rh’s stuff. He seems like an angry person (sometimes) but i think he’s alright, great teacher, it’s just weather or not you want to use his techniques.
peace~live it
As a man who began looking at different programs for improving one’s game only within the past year, I find the comments on sites like this one amazing.
I am not going to give a rat’s ass if one guru insults another. I am only going to invest money with the method that makes sense to my particular dating goals. If Ross Jeffries or someone else’s program gets me laid who cares if he acted like a jerk to another dating guru.
Really, the dialogue I see sounds like something I would see from a group of women. Please…man up and move on. It’s getting embarrassing.
@robert
I actually like hearing feedback about the personal side of these gurus before I go out and donate my hard-earned to them. My experience (of several years) is most of them have something to offer, and you’ll most likely learn enough from any of the better ones to get you laid often enough – its not quite rocket surgery once you understand the ground rules. Sure, its just a preference thing, but I’d rather be giving my cash to someone who’s not only good at teaching this stuff, but also someone I would admire as a person.
As a secondary note (and not in any way disparaging your point), I’d just make the observation that dismissing such comments as coming from a bunch of women implies a general statement about the value of womens conversation. I personally rate womens intelligence quite highly, albeit they do talk about different topics. For me, learning why women discuss different topics than men provided real breakthroughs for me when it came to understanding and bedding them
You know what? Ross might be a jackass, but his shit is legit. Ii’ve going through his modules and soon will be ready to test it out and Im 100% confident it will work. When it comes to getting laid, I ignore politics and concentrate on facts. Ross Jefferies gets you laid and thats a fact.
I’ve studied this bs. for years. Ross Jeffers sucks, not because he’s stupid, but because he’s weird. Most women will not like this approach. There is however a fun flirty approach that always will work with a girl. Of course, you must have the other elements as well. Maturity, understanding, foresight and experience. This comes to the unfortunate reality that most men who really need “help” don’t possess. To the contrary women all tend to think and behave in a similar reverse frame as men. So in the end, the only teacher and I repeat ONLY is experience itself. The further along you get with women, the better you will naturally be..along these lines David Wygant will start to make more and more sense with experiences. Coons like Ross Jeffers are for nubes, hopelessly looking for a one inch punch with no experience.
Right now I am so busy trying to get rid of my bad habits on picking up that I will use both styles,I find them great!
Just after I have finally succeded as I want I would be able to go deep into this dispute…
I have studied both Ross’s and David’s stuff. Neither has helped me get laid, but Ross has given me some really valuable insights, while David’s stuff is totally useless. The phrases “Speed Seduction” and “Double Your Dating” actually describe their respective attitudes very well. The idea that doubling one’s dating could ever be a desirable goal, is obvious utter nonsense, if you stop to think about it for five seconds. It means that if you had one date a month, you will now have two dates a month. If you had one date a year, you’ll have two dates a year. Big deal. And, of course, it means if you had no dates before, you will have no dates after. Double zero is still zero, isn’t it? So clearly David DeAngelo caters for the politically correct customers who are too afraid to admit their natural male needs. It might be a better strategy commercially, but if I had to spend money on either of them, it would be Ross. From him, I can hope to learn at least something useful.
Who hates whom and why and how many women Jeremiah has fucked is none of my concern and I couldn’t care less. Still, could it be that David referred to a different Jeremiah in his reply? That would explain everything.
I’m not too fond of Ross Jeffries but I totally hate David Wygant, so I’m on Ross’s side. Having had a discusson with David Wygant, I can say he’s the kind of person whom I can absolutely trust to tell a blatant lie and appear to be genuinely surprised by accusations that are actually true. So it’s quite possible that Ross is telling the truth and David is just trying to save his face.
Lol, if you closely read this entire article + comments you’ll see Ross, David and Pick up podcast working together to promote their debate speed seduction vs. natural game. A promotional stunt, and the way it has been done was really clever guys!
As for my 2 cents: got a metaphor for ya. All ways lead to Rome, if the “German road goes their just like the “French” one does, both work in their own unique way. One isn’t better than the other, but different compared to… the other. I’m sure some elements of every system work, it’s just what you’re comfortable with.
Now to me, I’m all about finding unifying concepts. Settings like online and clubs and streets are cute, but I want the bigger picture. And I’m not even talking about dating alone, I want the picture that gives me social success because of dating success and vice versa. I’m exploring the universal laws of attraction if you will, and screw all that technique A and B stuff because they flow from the principles. Get the principles… and you create your own techniques!
Regards,
Dennis Miedema
Win With Women
You’re dead wrong on one point Dennis, Wygant can’t stand him.
This reminds me of the heavy metal groups of the 80′s who used to take shots at the pop bands and today they play with them…lol…The industry is a competitive market and for one reason or another they try to set themselves apart from the others so they can attract more consumers. People deal with competition in different ways, and Ross has his way which is to provoke and challenge his competition…
I’m familiar with both programs and it’s a matter of taste, but I like David Wygant’s style better. David says he respects all people but he does single out a particular group of people in one of his programs because he’s not a religious person himself. Another guy teaching on the same subject, singled out the intellect, which is a person he deems as a partying type with no personality. He’s not a religious guy either but his singling out example is more practical with less bias. His approach seems to be David Wygant influenced as he is critical also of the pick up lines. I prefer natural within who you are rather than telling the same pick up lines over and over again…It seems to get boring after awhile even with success and it only works on certain women.
You know what, it doesn’t matter all that much to me about their relationship. I have been following both of them for a while and their shit makes sense. I use their stuff in conjucnction to get results and I’m thankful for it. If one guru doesn’t work for you, so what. Find someone who suits your style. These men don’t have shit that doesn’t “work” or “useless”. Just because it didn’t “work” for you doesn’t meant that it won’t for someone else.
In the end, whatever methods gives you the desired results, GO FOR IT lol. Have fun with life. Take care of yourselves ^_^
My apologies lol I meant, “conjunction” ^_^
Actually, I don’t like to compare which one is better. I simply think any one works for me is good.
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