The Weirdness of Real Social Dynamics

by Editor on February 11, 2008

UPDATE 7/16/2008: Apparently, this post is a foreshadowing for the crap storm…. Watch reactions to a infield video by Real Social Dynamics instructor.

I swear I would never do this post, here it goes. Ever since joining the community, I’ve been waiting for the “Blueprint” to be finished writing by Tyler of Real Social Dynamics. That was back at the end of 2004. I still haven’t heard anything new about it, perhaps because I’ve given up.

You’ve probably all heard about the ethical business dealings of Real Social Dynamics, although I’m certainly a bit… doubtful about how true those are.


Didn’t finish the blueprint…

rsd3.gif

What Do They Have To Offer?

Certainly, Real Social Dynamics would’ve had to close up shop if it weren’t for the David Deangelo seminars and strong mention by Neil Strauss in The Game. They say even bad publicity is good publicity. They are mentioned on the Double Your Dating Advanced Series (both editions), Mastery Series, Approaching Women, Body Language and one other that I can’t remember currently. These products have been around for over 10+ years combined and give them the bulk of their business through referrals, probably not word of mouth.*

* Could be disputed by the amount of PPC campaigns under “Real Social Dynamics” and the numerous domains they own and run to capture most of the traffic.

LackNo Participation In The Seduction Community

Why don’t Real Social Dynamics participate openly in the community? They seem to distance themselves in a strange manner. I’ve never had ONE of my emails returned, and I did receive one from Jeffy (Jlaix) back about 2 years ago, although I think that was before he was even an instructor.

rsd2.gif

The straw that broke my back was when I saw on Tyler’s blog, that Jeffy had interviewed him about their new product “Blueprint Decoded”. That’s just kinda weird to me. Wouldn’t you get someone like Thundercat (not probably likely), Bobby Rio, Fast Seduction or myself to get the word out and ask unbiased questions?

I was at the Mystery Method Super Conference in 2006 and met a guy that had taken a boot camp specifically with Tyler, and said he felt this weird vibe of bitterness towards women coming from him. Now this is a common thing for many guys in the community but he felt it came more from a source of insecurity rather than desire to teach well. That’s just one guy.


I tried to get an interview with LoverBoy, but he had just started to work at RSD (about 2 years ago) and said they weren’t allowed to…

A senior instructor at Pickup101 was running a workshop in San Fran. They ran into another boot camp run by RSD. The RSD instructor came over and started chewing out the instructor of Pickup101 saying that he had no right to be there, they were there first, and so on. An hour went by and all the girls that were approached by the instructor and students of the RSD instructor were weirded out and started flirting with the Pickup101 students and instructor throughout the night. Guess who had a more enjoyable time?

Stephen Nash, who was PlayboyLA when he instructed at RSD, left them and moved back to NYC. Tyler still hates him to this day. Apparently, these guys teach character-based game but don’t deal with the baggage they cart around personally. Walk the walk is important in my mind. = Discredited by Sinn (see comments below)

Evolving With Their Teachings?

Has anyone noticed that Real Social Dynamics have evolved from their old routine-based teachings to character-based game? Is this a natural progression? Doctor Paul, the chief architect of character-based game, said that as soon as he released his MindOS, and a few other patent-pending seminars based on his personal scientific studies, Real Social Dynamics started leaning towards it and emphasizing most of Doctor Paul’s teachings at their seminars. He did go into further details about KEY TERMS and SPECIFICS which I don’t want to repeat here.

rsd1.gif

They seem to be releasing more material than ever… I believe, and I could be wrong, to distance themselves from boot camps towards informational products so they get less refunds and make more money.

Here’s A Real Social Dynamics Instructor – Alex

Oh smooth…

After all that, I pose the question…

Is RSD all that bad? What have you guys heard from friends/around the community? Would you take a boot camp from them, or would you prefer someone else? What other positive/negative experiences have you had with RSD? Do you enjoy their products? If so, what benefits have you seen specifically?

{ 181 comments… read them below or add one }

matt February 12, 2008 at 12:45 am

rsd suck. i never hear anything good.

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jaht February 12, 2008 at 2:55 am

i know someone who took a bootcamp a few months ago, he had nothing but good things to say about it, weird stuff here hehe.

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DC February 12, 2008 at 3:35 am

U already had a bad opinion of them because they don t asnswer your emails,probably u can t make money from their products like u make from the others,etc so i doubt u (we can) have an honest opinion/discution here.(eg..rds bad pickup 101 good).
maybe it s true what they said about them..tyler hating women,etc.don t know,don t care.
in the end for me what it count is what their material(products)can do for me.
if u didn t listen all their stuff they come out until now then make posts like this one don t see the point except to bashing them(and maybe force them to contact u).
read tyler archive from fs.com and then tell me other pua who can explain/disect “the game” better than him.

ps.sorry 4 my bad English.
ps.2-don t become the next thundy..he s lame and no credibility whatsoever.

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Stumble February 12, 2008 at 7:33 am

It’s easy to drink haterade like you’ve done here.. but yeah I think RSD is great. I’ve learnt a lot of stuff from them. Foundations really broke down what was going on in a social interaction and I got some key stuff from that.

People who promote positivity and personal growth I think are great.

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Mack Tight February 12, 2008 at 8:16 am

Thundercat interview RSD?!? That’s hilarious!

I think that gurus should be challenged and if they are worthy of being a guru they should be able to handle it (for example recently I challenged Johnny Soporno on my blog and he responded to it with a lengthy comment. He gained my respect by doing that).

But from a business standpoint I would not expect RSD to jump into the lion’s pit by free will as you propose they should do.

Although I would pay good money to hear Thundercat interview RSD AND THEN have RSD interview Thundercat.

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Seduction Chronicles February 12, 2008 at 8:42 am

Just remember, Jeffy and Tyler are in my top dating coaches of 2007… so I wouldn’t say I’m constantly bashing them. Every now and again I like to do an “expose” and let the chips fall where they may.

DC – Personally I think he over analyzes the game. I love his writing style and depth though. The next Thundy? Come on!

Stumble – You think digging all this up from my brain was easy? Heaven’s no. I’d trade a copy and paste article any day.

Mack Tight – Haha I thought you’d enjoy that last part. Yeah it’s always interesting to see how the gurus react at times. When David Wygant and Brad P came out of nowhere and commented on a post I wrote, that was a cool experience.

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Stumble February 12, 2008 at 9:25 am

Fair enough SC. I just saw the post for what it was and haven’t read much of your other posts. I do like this site though and am subscribed, cool stuff.

I would actually love to see RSD on Keys to the VIP or something like that where we can see them in field.

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gigi February 12, 2008 at 9:27 am

donovan i’m surprised.

1. ‘distance themselves from the community’ – what community exactly. you mean they don’t talk weird and they don’t call girls “sets” or what exactly.

2. sure enough they aren’t kind to any potential affiliates but you know what their new material (mainly “Transformations”) is simply awesome and a relief for many many guys who suffered for months or years at the hands of people who tell them to ask girls “who lies more” and to “kino escalate sets” omg. rsd are the FIRST to shout ‘enough with selling snake oil and lies’ and started talking like human beings and about the true essence of being a man.

therefore i am more than happy to take their side even though it doesn’t benefit my affiliation interests a tiny bit, because their material is really good and can TRULY help people.

and it is a great feeling for me to know that i can refer people to something that can really help them, and that doesn’t turn them into a weirdo on top of being an afc.

3. dr paul didn’t invent anything. the concepts of being a man that’s successful with women are simple and you’re bound to hear the same thing a thousand times, because the bottom line is it’s not that complicated and there’s not that much to say.

some people WANT to make it look complicated so to be able to sell tens of products to people who want to be helped by them.

3. i’m surprised you even bothered to quote someone who has extremely close business relations with Style and Mystery.

we all know what these guys did and still do to milk students who want to be helped, milk them for $4000-$2500 per dvd, utilizing people’s gullibility as much as possible, and then they claim to be helping them. i’m surprised that THAT doesn’t make you sick.

4. i don’t understand the sudden anger burst in general.

5. i do not know anything about their bootcamps or their personal relations with people, since i never met them in person, so i can’t comment on that.

all the best
gigi

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DC February 12, 2008 at 10:00 am

hi Donovan

i think this post should be treated from 2 different points:
rsd the ppl behind the company and their products,ideas,etc cos i think 90% of us
don t care too much if tyler do this,if jeffy,tim do that as long their producs are top notch,help us,etc

of course it raises questions some rumors/facts(but hey who doesn’t like a juicy gossip from time to time:)
about this u can tell us much more since u have better connection but with so many ppl saying things that contradict eachother it s hard to tell where is the truth till u are not a part of the action.

and yes he over analyzes the game in the beginning of “his career”: ) but for a newbie(no ideea about girls) like me then it
was gold to understand from a to z everything.

it s strange that they refuse a dialog with you…try to their forum to post and raise this question.

sorry about “next thundercat thing”:D..mea culpa!!!!!

cheers.

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Tight Game February 12, 2008 at 10:19 am

I have watched all the DVDs from RSD. Foundations was ok, but I really liked Transformations and Jeffy Show. At least on DVD, the RSD instructors all come across as cool guys teaching concepts authentically in the context of their own life experience. It’s a subjective thing, of course, but I think these guys have the “cool vibe” nailed, much more so than some of their competitors.

Frankly, I also think that Tyler projects his company more professionally than most shops in Seduction Community. When you go to their website, you get the company and its products and services- not some manipulative landing page that makes the company look like a fly-by-night operation.

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Mack Tight February 12, 2008 at 1:35 pm

Sure, a lot of this post is hearsay and no major guru really “contributes to the community” any more unless it is to promote their material. But you have to admit there are still some interesting points made.

Kudos Donovan for another buzz worthy post that got people to read and react.

I have to respect RSD for having the following they have and for being successful without giving interviews or having affiliate programs to promote their products. I’m sure other commercial gurus would be doing the same too if they were in such a position.

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Tynan (aka Herbal) February 12, 2008 at 2:45 pm

I know these guys personally and have seen their work a well as their personal lives. I have no involvement in their business whatsoever… not even as an affiliate or anything like that.

Their workshops are an amazing value (which I recommend to people when they ask me who they should learn from).

They LIVE what they teach. They are very well rounded people who are FAR from being pickup robots.

When you have as many workshops as they do (and trust me… there are some VERY negative people who sign up for these things), you will have occasional issues. I would guess that their satisfaction rate is probably around 99%.

I could go on, but I’ll save it. Just wanted to chime in as someone who’s been around the game for a while and has some firsthand experience with the people in question.

Tynan aka Herbal

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Seduction Chronicles February 12, 2008 at 3:04 pm

Gigi ->

What kind of name is that? YOU’RE FUCKING RETARDED!

jk That’s an outburst…

Everyone ->

This post is simply to get the reactions of you, my readers, and stimulate a good discussion. If I didn’t want a discussion I wouldn’t have allowed comments.

It’s good to “expose” different things. I like doing it. I enjoy the critical side of myself, probably because I’m critical of myself more so than of others.

Does anyone else feel cathartic because of this? I sure do. Off my chest.

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gigi February 12, 2008 at 4:46 pm

my parents were drunk when they named me. drunk with happiness ;)

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Seduction Chronicles February 12, 2008 at 4:52 pm

What nationality?

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Bobby Rio February 12, 2008 at 6:58 pm

The only thing i really know about RSD is reading old Tyler posts from ASF… good stuff but way over analyzed…

I read Tyler’s blog from time to time.. but the posts are just so freaken long.. dont get me wrong some of them are filled with gold.. its just my two minute attention span that can’t make it to the end.

I have often wondered how they stay in business.. or any company that relies heavily on bootcamps… Are there really that many guys shelling out thousands of dollars to hang in a bar with a couple “instructors” if so.. maybe its time i opened up shop lol

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Mack Tight February 12, 2008 at 7:21 pm

I love these posts:

- Talk smack about Mystery, RSD, some other guru…

- Flood of people defending the accused

- Eventual backpedaling with a “I only made all those allegations to “stimulate discussion”” excuse

The post gets buzz and you can always worm your way out of the heat if it gets too hot

For the record I still think Neil Strauss blows… no backpedaling from me

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Seduction Chronicles February 12, 2008 at 7:24 pm

Whoa… I never backpeddled out of Mystery or RSD. I mean’t everything I said in those posts, otherwise I would never say them.

Doesn’t mean I don’t like the buzz… ;)

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Lance February 12, 2008 at 10:00 pm

Relative noob here, so I don’t have any firsthand experience with RSD. I read Seduction Chronicles regularly because it has good content, but this post about RSD is a hatchet job and isn’t offering any value.

I read Tyler’s blog regularly and I love it. He’s a fine writer and a great analyst when it comes to attracton science. He’s pushing the envelope and I think his Blueprint Decoded product is going to be cutting edge. I give the guy props for that. I’m not holding anything against him or his company because of past reputation.

I viewed the entire Transformations product last week and I loved it. I thought it was a very compelling experience and had TONS to offer. I can honestly say it took my game to another level just in terms of attitude and framing. It was a balanced and professional looking product.

So that’s my two cents.

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Seduction Chronicles February 12, 2008 at 10:57 pm

Guys come on now. This is 1 post out of a 100 that’s on the negative side. Does that mean I can’t cause some controversy every once in a while?

I put this stuff out there so you can either tell me if I’m right or tell me if I’m wrong. Take a side. I mean… I like to think I’m somewhat balanced in my reporting here. Any one got my side? =)

“The secret of successful journalism is to make your readers so angry they will write half your paper for you.” – Cyril Edwin Mitchinson Joad

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Seduction Chronicles February 12, 2008 at 10:59 pm

BTW, Mehow is next. Anyone oppose that already?

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D February 13, 2008 at 5:07 am

Are you serious with this?
You must have oneitis with RSD or something. They are _the shit_

It’s funny how when someone’s successful others quickly attempt to trash their reputation.

For me and for any man that has struggled to control their life, only results matter. And I think RSD has been a greater help than any other “community” place I’ve been to.

Get real.

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Satori February 13, 2008 at 6:11 am

personally i think you so jerked off on the fact that gurus commented your posts once that you gave it a shot with rsd as well.

first off, the rsd price policy is pretty fair. they never raised the amount for a bootcamp since starting in 2004. all the other pioneers from back then take way more for offering way less today. and rsd is out there every weekend. even in europe.

thundercat is in my eyes the weakest so called pua with a name in the community out there. this guy is just hilarious. in his art of approaching several pages about body language are a straight rip-off from barbara & allan pease books on body language. word after word. how about an article on that?

next, jeffy did not answer your mails. wow! try and mail bill gates about your wlan problem… those guys are professionals nowadays and those channels of getting free value are simply closed. there is still the newsletter, the amazing blog and rsdnation.com of course. have a quick look at that site. every instructor is an active participant. now take a look at the venusian arts forum for example. the only official participation you get there is an update on the trial from lovedrop.

playboyLA left. well, that’s business. the word community sometimes implicates that we are a secret society of brothers bound to each other for lifetime. we’re not and things change. sean messenger left pickup101 and walter followed. that’s how it goes.

and it is definetely not true that rsd separates itself from the community. take a look at sinn’s and eltopo’s blogs from lovesystems. both are definetely under the top5 worldwide and have high value blogs. and both had great experiences with tyler about a month ago. it’s just that this isn’t stirred up in political bullshit.

last but not least, if you talk about the community in this manner, ask yourself what you’ve been contributing with this post.

satori

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Lance February 13, 2008 at 6:38 am

You’ve got over 1000 subscribers…that’s a huge audience. With that many readers, you’ve got an obligation to keep your articles professional and fair. That doesn’t mean you can’t give your opinion, but your reaction to RSD is totally knee jerk and baselss. It takes away from your authority, which I’m sure is the opposite effect you were looking for.

It’s fine to post a negative reaction on something (or expose a subject), and in fact this is part and parcel of being a media entity, which is what Seduction Chronicles is at this point. Here’s a great example of how to do this at problogger.net…in it, you’ll see the site owner Darren Rowse disagreeing with a written piece from another site:
http://www.problogger.net/archives/2008/01/21/writing-with-confidence-or-risking-your-reputation/

FYI, I’m a big fan of Mehow so can’t wait to see what pops up there.

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SeductionP February 13, 2008 at 11:31 am

I loved the article and I don’t think you need to explain yourself. State your story and let your subscribers battle it out. To each is own.

I have read your comments on T.Ferriss’s blog, which is how I found this site, and I am sure he would be very proud of your blogging philosophy. Controversial topics are what its all about and they happen to be a great way to really get people invested in your site.

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Seduction Chronicles February 13, 2008 at 12:37 pm

@Satori:

You comment was WAY off base in my regards:

Never did I say that I endorsed Thundercat’s treatment of RSD. Come on now. I didn’t say that. Your assuming things I haven’t said. I did say, “I’M VERY DOUBTFUL OF THAT” I defended them!

“next, jeffy did not answer your mails.”

Yes, he did email me back. In all seriousness I don’t think I’ve emailed since he started at RSD. I should have followed up, but didn’t. I have nothing against Jeffy (Jlaix) – I think he’s a cool guy. I do have respect for him.

Please remember, I have nothing PERSONALLY against them. This is an critical post about what I’ve learned from OTHERS and from THE FEW business interactions I’ve had.

I was actually VERY impressed with Tyler with Sinn on the Nepali Coast trail in Hawaii back December. Very cool.

By the way, Eltopo and Sinn are Mystery Method instructors, NOT RSD. Completely different company .

Read the post properly next time before you start attacking me.

@SeductionP: Thanks. Remember this is my site, and I don’t claim to be an unbias journalist. You guys are VERY SMART, and HIGHLY ABLE to tell when something I say is off base. As you guys have done!

I might have to find out more about Mehow. He seems like a decent guy, but I’m over the Mystery clones that add one trademark term to their product line and pretend it’s a breakthrough. PureKino… hello.

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sting February 13, 2008 at 1:45 pm

Donovan -

there’s a short answer to this (which i’ll save for now) and a long one (which is a point-by-point analysis of your post).

ON YOUR POST
- agree about the sloppiness of the “blueprint” release. no excuses – just way too much delaying.

- “what do they have to offer?” – bullshit points from your end. if DYD gave RSD a boost, then it did so because David D. FELT IT WAS WORTHWHILE.
Strauss’ account had the potential to hurt RSD. if it hasn’t, thats a credit to their business savvy.
You have NO WAY of knowing whether RSD’s rep has spread by word of mouth or not – this is pure speculation, and completely baseless at that.

- “Lack of involvment in the community” – purely a personal choice of theirs. not my business, or yours or anyone elses.
they have no way of knowing how “unbiased” a neutral site is. you’ve seen the ridiculous degree to which another neutral site owner took his beef with them – can you blame them for being mistrustful?
Tyler’s misogny??? this is exactly whats wrong with the community. what the fuck does it matter what Tyler’s attitude to women is???? when you study math from a teacher, you take in the skills he teachs, not his life philosophy.
we are SUPPOSED to be BIG BOYS here – frankly i think a guru’s attitude is irrelevent. and those who feel otherwise, need a course on “inner game for pre-start of PU” course.
for the record, i have no idea what TD’s attitude is towards women, and even if it was bad, woudln’t affect my opinion of him as a teacher.
You only know Nash’s side of the story of his falling out with TD. Nash learnt a hell of a lot more from TD then the other way around – that much is clear. the way Nash avoided that point in the interview you did with him was probably just business, but not particularly ethical. Tyler “hates” Nash – does Nash “love” Tyler, or soemthing?

- “Evolving with their teachings” – dude, this “this guy stole this from this guy” story… is a never-ending, circular and pointless one. you’ve been around the community, you know this.

I have no idea, and neiter do you where RSD came up with their current teaching model from. The essential point is whether their’s meat to it.
note that RSD teach in-field. Dr. Paul does not.

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sting February 13, 2008 at 2:13 pm

now, more importantly, my take on RSD.

I read Tyler D.’s old posts. they’re thorough, they’re tight. his writing was a little all over the place (Sinn of MM, by contrast, is dead tight in this regard). but putting it together and playing with it in-field was effective for me. More so than the writings of any other, single writer.

TD’s 25 points list and enough of an attitude to keep at it is just about all you need to get good at basic PU.

“New” RSD is inner game focused stuff. this stuff is always vague, by its very nature – and is always open to the criticism of being BS. Its the seduction community’s “evolved” version of the “be confident, dude, girls like confidence” high school advice.
Good advice, but more easily said than done. RSD aren’t alone here – soporno, xuma, nash, zan, david D., David W. etc. are all in this boat.

RSD is at least as good as anybody with it – and they practice it IN-FIELD in front of students unlike any of the others named above. To me, that gives them solid credability in an arena (‘confidence and inner game’) which is abstract by its very nature.

In short, i like RSD and think they’re filled with value.
I agree with you about how poor a show the blueprint production has been – thats about it.

cheers bro,
S.

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Seduction Chronicles February 13, 2008 at 4:46 pm

@Sting: Always like your comments.

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Sinn February 13, 2008 at 8:01 pm

Why don’t you attack someone who hasn’t given away TONS of free value?

Why don’t you go after someone who hasn’t grown up and become an amazing example of the transformative power of the community and self help in general…

TD doesn’t hate Stephen I talked to him about in Hawaii. He was forced to grow up after Neil trashing him in that book. And he did.

TD is an example of what’s good in the community. He deserves a lot more respect than this.

But I guess you just like slamming people you don’t know to get publicity. Classy.

S

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Pyro February 13, 2008 at 8:24 pm

I really, really think this post is out of line.

TD and RSD don’t participate in the Seduction Community? Who says anyone has to do anything? I don’t see PUATraining, Mehow, Mystery Method, Venusian Arts, participating in the seduction community that much. Lance doesn’t do anything but put out products for PickUp-101. Style pimps his books and audios at Style Life Academy which is like $20-30/month. PlayboyLA pimps DYD Online Dating and even Thundercat’s Renegade Rapport on his blog to make a fast buck when everyone knows he doesn’t use those products and that he’s just taking advantage of his list. Mystery hasn’t made a post anywhere for almost 2 years. Mind of Mystery was a complete joke.

Who else you want to bring up? Vin DiCarlo? Dimitri? Juggler? The AMP guys? Those guys don’t participate that much unless it’s some interview that says “We take guys and teach them X, Y, Z, check us out at http://www.seductioncompany984.com

The only guys bringing new shit to the table after the stupidity that was VH1′s the Pick-Up Artist are Tyler Durden with RSD, Sean Messenger with LVO3, and Stephane with ideagasms. There are others I’m sure… but man, I do not believe this post. TD gives enough free content away alone in his blog to CHANGE YOUR LIFE. His pimping of Eckhart Tolle alone is going to do more for the Community than you can imagine. Okay, maybe you want to give the credit to Eckhart but NO ONE except Tyler has really consistently pushed life-changing material from outside the community like Ayn Rand, The Power of Now, Alan Watts, fuck, C.S. Lewis even.

I really don’t see how they’re not participating any less than any of the other marketers and it seems to me with TD’s content focused blog, their constant posting on their message board at RSDNation.com, the fact that the Blueprint is probably not going to cost $3700 like The Annihilation Method, or $7000 for the Mind of Mystery… it seems to me that they’re participating a whole shit load.

RSD is helping people. They bring new stuff to the table and do it their own way. Sorry if they’re not a Mystery Method clone in teachings and community outreach. As long as they’re helping people, let ‘em do it their own way even if Jeffy is asking TD questions. Like Thundercat isn’t simply sucking dick when he’s interviewing “the gurus.”

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Pyro February 13, 2008 at 9:10 pm

Go figure that Sinn would post right before me.

For the record, Sinn, El Topo, and Captain Jack give a ton of free value in their blogs. I guess I kind of think of them as the Dallas Crew and Mystery Method as some nameless corporation in Los Angeles.

I retract my comment that Mystery Method doesn’t participate in the community.

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gigi February 13, 2008 at 9:32 pm

sinn raises a good point. some PUA’s have really made huge emotional progress over recent years. if you compare them to a few years ago you hardly recognize the man. Tyler and DavidD are good examples.

some, on the other hand.. didn’t progress an inch.. and are still trapped in their twisted view of the world and of women and in their twisted methods to circumvent the pain that comes from their negatively delusional perceptions of the world.

should i give examples by name? i think you all know who i’m talking about anyway, dot dot dot

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Seduction Chronicles February 13, 2008 at 9:37 pm

@Sinn: 1. Good point. 2. I think you answered your own questions with your last comment. I’m classy.

I’d love to know your opinion on THIS post, who I don’t know well, but you certainly know personally:

http://www.seduction-chronicles.net/2008/01/04/the-magic-shows-over-when-is-mystery-going-evolve/

@Pyro: 2nd post: Life happens like that sometimes. =) Thanks for the comments.

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Sean Messenger February 14, 2008 at 5:28 am

I met Tyler when I took DYD’s Deep Inner Game Seminar in Vegas (as an eager-beaver student) years ago.

He struck me as smart, and odd, and defensive. So did most of the other pickup gurus there (with some notable exceptions like Hypnotica and Big Will).

I ran the same streets and same bars of SF as Jeffy when I was head coach at PU101. He didn’t impress me as someone I’d want to hang out with.

I read The Game. Then I saw The Incredibles, and developed this theory that Syndrome was actually based on TD.

I was a hater. I hated their routines, I hated their theories, I hated their game.

But then one of my coaches at LVO3 turned me on to Tyler’s blog in 2007, and I was blown away.

I had to re-think my own attitudes. I had to check my own bullshit. Was it possible I was wrong and short-sighted, and mistook small sample size and personal agendas for objective reality? Possibly…

I don’t know jack shit about their business practices. But I do agree with Sinn that if you teach enough workshops, you will get some seriously embittered and delusional guys as students, and they can give you a bad rep in a hurry. Hell, I once counted out $2500 in cash to a student on a Sunday when he came to me and complained he didn’t get enough “personal attention,” after we had just been out with him till 4 AM following a 12-hour classroom day.

When you teach, you don’t want money from people who aren’t learning.

I respect RSD for their skills and their dedication. This isn’t an easy way to make a living. It’s a godddamn cutthroat business that will eat up all your time, and no, it’s not a rock-star lifestyle. It’s a lot of hotel rooms, and laptops and bad coffee, and then if you get on a hot streak, skanky girls drunk enough at the bar to come back with you to your Days Inn room, and hopefully leave before full daylight so you never have to see them again.

It’s fucking “Turn the Page.”

TD has been in this game for real for longer than almost anyone else, and had the balls to change everything. He’s published more than I could in 10 years of rambling, and while he does write too long and convoluted for my simple caveman taste, you can’t deny he puts real thought into it and gives great value.

They bring hope to guys who have no hope. They create products that the people who have the most need can buy (and you can hold me to this… if I ever create a $7000 DVD, please shoot me in the public square like Ceacescau).

I don’t know how they teach now. I think it’s more difficult to start with routines and tricks and transition to natural, instinctive, emotion-centered game.

But I think they can do it. I saw Jeffy talk at Cliffslist two years ago, and saw a different man. I saw a MAN.

We all begin this journey as boys, hoping the tribe will lead us into the ways of men. Perhaps RSD can be one of those tribal leaders.

Peace and love,

Sean
LVO3

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Bobby Rio February 14, 2008 at 6:34 am

Its great reading everyone’s reactions to this post. To tell you the truth I skimmed through the post but have had a blast reading the comments.

While its nice every one comes to defend RSD I think its bullshit they critize you. Its your fucking blog if you want to talk shit about anyone go ahead..

Neil wrote an entire book bashing RSD- and everybody (including RSD) loved it. ANd I bet RSD loves this post, cause a shit load of people who have forgotten about them just went to Tyler’s blog and the RSD homepage to check them out.

Real Socail Dynamics should send you a commision on their next batch of bootcamps!

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Joe P February 14, 2008 at 10:46 am

Right on Bobby Rio. Even bad publicity is good. What’s the opposite of love? Not hate but INDIFFERENCE.

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Seduction Chronicles February 14, 2008 at 10:47 am

@Everyone but directed at Sean:

The only guy that rambles perhaps more than Tyler Durden is Sean M, but we still love his posts. =)

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Seduction Chronicles February 14, 2008 at 10:49 am

@Tight Game: Good point. I do LOVE their web design. I wish I was good like that. I gotta get this EFFING comments section more readable dammit. Anyone with a CSS background that can help?!

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Bob February 19, 2008 at 3:28 pm

I heard that Eckhart Tolle is suing RSD for stealing his ideas.

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Tom February 19, 2008 at 4:36 pm

I heard that Eckhart Tolle and Anthony Robbins like to hang out with the RSD crew. Jealous much?

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TheSpecialist February 20, 2008 at 11:32 am

What is with these lame ass, limp wristed critical articles?
First you bash Mystery (an article which I just read) and now RSD. You make a declarative statement (THE WEIRDNESS OF RSD) and yet you offer almost no supporting evidence. If you want to be considered a journalist or at the very least worth reading for your 1000 subscribers, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU. All you’ve posted is conjecture, qualified statements and questions. You haven’t had first hand experience and you clearly have a double standard for RSD versus everyone else.

Using Thundercat as your partner in crime makes you lose a lot of credibility. When he “interviews” gurus (re: his buddies) he does nothing but throw them softballs. He’ll slob the knob of any guru that will let him and from all indications he couldn’t get laid in a whore house if he had a duffel bag full of money.

For the record I’ve never met any of these guys and honestly think there is probably something wrong with pretty much anyone that becomes a “dating guru” but then again, we all have our problems. These dating gurus have allowed us room for personal change and regardless of their motivation I think it’s only fair to allow them the same luxury.

Any idiot can reserve a url and post a blog (or comment on that blog, for that matter). What have YOU added that’s so original? And that is a rhetorical question. My and my massive ego don’t give a fuck what you have to say. ~Tootles

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Seduction Chronicles February 20, 2008 at 12:32 pm

@TheSpecialist: If Thundercat’s my partner in crime… I’d better tell him that.

Thanks for the comment.

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SeW800 February 21, 2008 at 7:44 am

I don’t quite know how I got here, but anyway I got an idea out of your writing…

The thing you called “No Participation”, I think it’s pretty much normal.

Imagine like, Coca Cola has a new cola, and what, do they do an interview or a promotion with Pepsi on that?

Nope.

They have their own marketing tactic, and pepsi ahs it’s own, and they both follow their own paths…

If one day Pepsi (you & the rest) decides to whine in front of the public because Coca Cola doesn’t want to participate with them, well guess what, that doesn’t mean too good with lot’s of stuff…

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Ross Jeffries February 22, 2008 at 2:25 pm

Boys, boys..as the Godfather of this community and the guy who created it all, I have to say I have no love for Tyler or RSD. I warned Neil about Tyler years ago, and a few years back I was very alarmed at some of his more “Hubbardesque” posts on mASF.

But…but…but..to be fair, on the issue of instructors leaving the company:

Everyone in this business, sooner or later, is going to have that happen. Anyone with enough stones to want to teach is sooner or later going to have too big an ego to want to play second banana to the guy who hired/taught/recruited him.

It’s happened to me with virtually every person I trained and who co-taught with me, with the exception of Shirleen Burnett, whom most of you guys have never read about or heard of.

Add to that, this BUSINESS attracts as many twisted people as does the pick-up game itself; again, I have no love for Tyler at all, but I would bet any amount of money that some of the people who left his camp have some serious skeletons in their closets, and for all we know, they’ve broken agreements, stolen money, gotten involved in crime, who the fuck knows. I can say with full honesty that MANY of my “crew” over the years have gone down the same crooked, fucked-up pathways, including a guy recently whom I groomed as my co-trainer who turned around and cheated me in business, issuing false financial statements about our joint ventures, lied to me about his drug addiction, etc etc.

Unti you run one of these businesses, you have no idea of the bullshit that gets tossed your way.

And, sometimes people just leave well..because they are ready to leave. They want to do other things. They move on. Good on them, and as long as they don’t steal my work to set up their own businesses, I wish them well.

Now, personally, I can’t possibly see how anyone running a “train trainers and have them do seminars/bootcamps world wide” model can possibly keep up the quality of instruction.

But if RSD can do it(which I seriously doubt) more power too them. If they can’t do it, then they are purely in it for the money biz, in which case fuck them in the liver with a flaming baseball bat.

Peace and piece,

RJ
93/93

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Ross Jeffries February 22, 2008 at 2:50 pm

Goodness Christ, I have no love for Tyler(to say the least) and you will all remember I warned Strauss about him many years ago. To my mind he’s a blow-hard, Hubbardesque guy who is in it for the power and control over the guys he teaches as much as the money.

But…but…..but….

The fact that people have left his camp is just how this business works. Usually, the guys who want to co-teach eventually leave no matter how well you treat them because their egos are too big to accept second fiddle.

The difference is if they leave and then steal your work and go on to teach your stuff in a rival business.

And then, some people have to be booted for all sorts of crimes, small and large, including cheating in the business, felony arrests and convictions, spousal abuse-trust me, I’ve seen the full gamut of bullshit and crimes from my co-trainers throughout the years.

You think the students who COME to these programs can be twisted? Just meet some of the INSTRUCTORS.

So, no love for Tyler, but until you’ve been in one of these businesses, you don’t really even begin to understand what truly goes on.

RJ
93/93
“Learn from the legend, accept no substitutes”

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Stefan February 23, 2008 at 7:59 pm

In my opinion, Tyler and RSD are one of the few companies out there that has evolved and moved the direction of this “community” for the better.

I’ve personally learned a lot from Tyler and have nothing but major respect for the guy and what he’s done for others.

I don’t see the need to criticize. Anyone who is truly fulfilled and at peace with themselves are coming from a position of ABUNDANCE and positivity. Anything negative is just a reflection of their own insecurities and is an attempt to make themselves feel more significant.

Much love,

Stefan

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Seduction Chronicles February 23, 2008 at 9:39 pm

ABUNDANCE has little to do with criticism in this case. Is the criticism of the Bush administration coming from a place of negativity or the desire to improve the situation?

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RSD Student February 27, 2008 at 3:35 am

I think you can blame Mystery’s ridiculously expensive program to Mike Long.

Mike Long is Mystery’s marketing guy. I would guess that 50% of what we pay for goes to Mike Long and the leftovers go to Mystery and his crew.

Command a higher price tag (Eben Pagan) to create a perception of higher value or authority-quality.

But what do I know. I’m just a n00b. I love RSD & Mystery.

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Neil Natura March 9, 2008 at 9:31 pm

Hey,

Dude, it IS a nice article you’ve creating here in order to create some buzz. Probs for that.

Somebody talked about Tim ferris, he is the man! I’m truely greatfull for that book he wrote.

Everyone check out: http://www.4hourworkweek.com it is AWESOME!

Anyway, I run my own seduction company and have done Bootcamps in around 10 Countries in Europe – mostly in Scandinavia. I have personally trained around 300 guys IN FIELD and a couple of thousands at seminars etc. at this point (March 10 -2008). – Just so you know where I come from.

Anyway, I have attended a few Bootcamps – including one with Tim 2 years ago! He was really cool. He really tought me some AWESOME stuff! I was a valuetaker and now looking back he really impressed me with his AWESOME attitude and changed some of my beliefs on some few key things..

And he is awesome with women. No doubt. And I am sure the whole RSD crew is.

I’m sure that ANYBODY who takes ALL KIND of guys out in the field and demonstrate and coach people to approach, attract and close are good with women in one way or an other – I respect anyone who do this job great!

There will always be 1-2-3 guys who will talk bad.. Thats it. Move on.

“The Past Does Not Equal The Future”

Why am I backing RSD up?

I love people who bring a lot of value to the table in some way or an other. With out knowing the dude I can say Tyler is a good communicater and has some great stuff to offer… So do Tony Robbins, Echard Tolle, Brian Tracy, Tim Ferris, Mystery, The dude “cronic” who wrote this article, etc. etc.. Look for the best in people! (Don’t be an idiot).

CHECK Tylers blog out and do your self a favour and sign up for their newsletter.

Best,

Neil Natura

Ps. I do not work in ANY way with RSD!

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Xander March 17, 2008 at 10:45 pm

Hey guys:

One day before assisting to a RSD conference in my city I got to read some of this posts plus many negative comments on the comunity forums and The Game about these guys so I had some doubts on my way there, but I must say I was more than satisfied after it;

first it was free which was understandable since it was kind as a preview before the bootcamp and it was a recording for RSD “Mastermind” series yet it wasnt any second rate speech I can assure, the best part i think was that Tyler Durden himself taught the seminar, you may say it was pretty basic material, specially if you’ve been into other guru’s materials and yet it was so well explained and practical, before it i tought RSD was all about routines and lines but I think that was a boost for inner game better than much material ive read, deeper than i believed indeed, and the guy has tons of charisma which makes a prety good energy vibe.

Yep he doesnt talk about loving women like zan does and yet he doesnt seem to me more bitter towards women than almost all gurus in the comunnity I know

I still have to get into the bootcamp but now I can suggest anyone to buy his materials (which we got a preview to), it may not be the philosophy to guide your life but RSD materials are a must for any one gettin into this world of seduction.

Xander

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Donovan April 9, 2008 at 12:36 pm

There’s a new audio podcast between two ex-RSD instructors that’s coming out very soon. I’ll post a link to it when I get it.

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David August 25, 2008 at 11:11 am

I think they’ve changed a lot.

At least they don’t suck as much as Stephane from ideagasms…

that guy is a real con artist

he even uses other people’s accounts to write posts on how good he is

http://z15.invisionfree.com/exideagasmers

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Josh October 12, 2008 at 6:53 pm

Fuck you Tyler Durden! Neil Strauss exposed you for the lowlife piece of shit that you are in his book “the Game!” If I were you I’d eat shit and die! Or better yet eat shit and live!

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Me October 30, 2008 at 3:24 am

I learnt a lot more from the RSD products than from anyone else out there. And I dont give a crap if Tyler hates women or not, he is a great teacher and knows what he is talking about.
I think everyone should stick to the instructors that fit his style, and if u dont like what they do u should just leave them alone.
What bothers me the most is that after reading The Game i thought Tyler was an ass, but now I realize he never gets into any dispute, he does his job at teaching without ever naming or mentioning other ppl in the comunity. And for that alone I respect him

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gigi November 1, 2008 at 3:01 am

> What bothers me the most is that after reading The Game

hopefully mate, you have learned your lesson about taking one man’s point of view as an absolute truth, solely because he has connections in the media that allowed his thoughts to be published in a book form.

about tyler, if his stuff works for you then go for it. but does it really work for you, or does it just ‘make sense and cool’ but you’re still not getting any girls. you should ask yourself that as well.

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You November 1, 2008 at 9:38 am

Me > That’s amazing. Tyler stole RJ’s and Gunwitch’s material, and never mentions them. And you see that as a good thing? Do you also think that it’s a good thing that they ban other companies names on their forum? It it done for your own good? Mehow, on the other hand, comes up with great new material, but gives credit to his sources source the stuff that comes from others.

By the way, I don’t know if he hates women, but he doesn’t like his students. Discussions on the RSD’s instructors board have been leaked a few years ago to proove it.

Among the big PU companies, RSD is the one that has the most bad reviews.

I’ll conclude by telling you that you love RSD’s material because they use techniques on you, techniques that other PUA (Gunwitch for example) teach their students, but RSD won’t teach them to you because you would notice they use them on YOU to make YOU a fanatic.

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Ali-Baba November 10, 2008 at 7:34 pm

Do you ever think that you were gamed into thinking that RSD is a great organization?
Neil Strauss said that TD had human behavior down to a science and became a master manipulator – not for girls but for power.
Why would he let anyone at his seminars believe any of the things Neil said, RSD is his source of POWER – so he puts on a pretty face.

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gigi November 10, 2008 at 7:56 pm

“Neil Strauss said” – and what makes you think that HE is not the master manipulator? we all remember some super sleazy marketing stunts he pulled, just for a start

you’re simply being manipulated back and forth by one guru and then back to the other, all of them hungry for power and worship first, money second, girls third, and helping guys forth.

if you really want advice and help in succeeding with women stick to the teachers that don’t go guru on you – david wygant, gunwitch, paul janka, and a lot of others.

or if you do insist on listening to the guruish ones concentrate on the content of their material and not on the person itself. you’re here to get women not to tail some dude.

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vip_party November 12, 2008 at 2:41 pm

I took a RSD training in 2005 and I have to say that it worked very well for me, but nor for all the students. Maybe because Mystery had not released his book at that time…so the sed community was not as advanced as it is now.

However, Tyler coached me personnaly during 2 hours (for no additional charge) after the other students went home. I can say 3 things from here:
_He’s good at pickup, however he takes his time to choose a likely working set
_He seems indeed weird but cool and I think he is so insecure that he comes up as a weirdo

Finally, the rest of his team at that time was good as well: especially Tim & Roxanne… I really had a blast

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adam celine November 23, 2008 at 12:26 pm

This is moronic. RSD has contributed more to this community than any other dating system out there.

They’re incredibly skilled and know what they’re doing, everyone else is just second best.

I’ve taken two bootcamps, one with saad and one with cristoph, and both were out of this world. Totally blew through all my sticking points.

I’ve also taken bootcamps from Zan which was decent but no where near the caliber that RSD offers.

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Martin Crowe November 25, 2008 at 1:11 pm

This is pure hating BS. Whoever wrote this either is tragically misinformed or simply bitter and jealous. RSD is currently the most successful dating company out there because they don’t waste their time, bitching about all the other PU companies out there. Having done a bootcamp with them I can say that they know their shit better than any of the other posers who rely on gimics, routines, props, putting on a pick-up personality and other BS crutches to lean on.

RSD teaches you that YOU are enough and shows you how to bring that out in a way that gets woman aching to fuck you. It’s worked for me. Oh and the instructor Alex is a fucking genius – he’s had instructors from Mystery pandering him to let them work for RSD alongside him.

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Samp November 25, 2008 at 9:05 pm

RSD is a joke. The entire story of Tyler is built on him being an illegal alien and having no integrity living with his roomates, until everyone got sick of him. He preaches the abundance mentality but go to his forum and you’ll notice that anytime someone types in a competitor’s name, it get’s bleeped out.

The RSD crew originally came up with this BS that they needed to do that to stop spam. And then afterwards they changed it to say they have bleep out words so they can’t have any “negativity”. Riiiiight.

Here’s another interesting concept with RSD, anytime anyone disagrees with their ideas they’re labeled “haters”. Basically you have to agree with everything they say in order to keep the “positive” vibe. A cult wouldn’t even be able to manipulate people with such bravado.

Everyone who’s part of that community starts ranting about Eckart Tolle and Fight Club like they are some Bible passage.

He also constantly preaches about how he doesn’t watch TV (part of his marketing gimick that he is some nomad on a spiritual journey) yet he seems to know every little detail on the latest celebrity gossip and pop culture references.

One thing is he loves to talk about how he has no ego when it’s so obvious he does all of this stuff because he enjoys listening to the sound of his own voice and having his cult-like zombies praise him for how “great” he is.

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Samp November 25, 2008 at 9:29 pm

To clarify my above post, the story of him moving to the States for the sole purpose of picking up girls and then pissing off his roomates by manipulating them with no integrity etc is based on what others have said/written about him (such as The Game). I am not saying that the story is a fact, just that there is a good chance of it being true. You might claim that this is not a valid source of information, but when independent people in the house say the same thing, it becomes hard to ignore.

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Piolo January 22, 2009 at 12:01 pm

all I have to say, RSD is doing a great JOB… and what they did in the past doesn’t matter, what matters is what they are doing right NOW

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Awesome February 3, 2009 at 10:49 am

Haha, awesome post.

If you want to expand your comfort zone and grow as a person, you should give a sincere apology without excuses.

Have a nice day! :)

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Dr.No March 18, 2009 at 9:14 pm

I don’t really care about their ethics or how manipulative the guys from RSD are. The only thing that I care is that it works for me.

I combined a lot of different ideas, from David D, Zan, Mystery, Tyler, and use them in my own way.

Isnt there a lot of catholics today despite what the church did in the middle ages? Should the followers stop to believe just because of that?

Yeah, I know, this is a very forced anallogy, and I’m not even christian, but I think you get the idea.

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Ced March 20, 2009 at 12:20 pm

Yeah, folowers of every religion should stop believing because it’s bullshit. Same thing for RSD. God doesn’t exist, RSD material doesn’t work. Both are cults, both are using people, both are…

It’s funny how you take stuff from David D, Zan and Tyler. You only take stuff from the useless “gurus”.

DeAngelo is a joke in the community, he’s a marketer and always refuse to go sarge with other gurus because they would see he has no skill. Most of his line have been proven to not work, even guys like Sinn and Mehow can barely make them work and have to do damage control after saying it.
Zan has nothing concrete. He is definitely good with women, but he doesn’t know why, and can certainly not explain it. Just a bunch of nice words that make you feel beter.
RSD is the same stuff… a bunch of stuff that make you feel good when you hear them, and it makes a lot of sense, … but it’s useless. You just have to take a step back, and you’ll see it’s right.
Mystery has made things soooo complicated. It’s to that hard to pickup a chick. Mystery doesn’t use Mystery Method. All the instructors start having success when they stop using Mystery Method. Not because it doesn’t work, but because it’s too complicated and not complicated enough at the same time.

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Ced March 20, 2009 at 12:23 pm

When someone writes “I combined a lot of different ideas, from David D, Zan, Mystery, Tyler, and use them in my own way”, I know FOR SURE he doesn’t get laid by community stuff.

Donovan may tell you the opposite, but he’s promoting David DeAngelo (he’s one of his affiliates) and he’s here to make money. Nothing wrong with that, it’s just that he loses credibility when talking about the guys he is affiliated to (afc adam, paul janka, david d, …)

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bill April 19, 2009 at 3:42 pm

I’ve studied many pu organizations and RSD seems to be the best. The blueprint is a masterpeice, it’s DEEP and a real eye opener. When someones on top it’s normal to get a lot of hate, like in this thread. But that’s to be expected from their competition, they feel thretened by RSD and that’s why they do it. RSD FTW!!

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gogo April 22, 2009 at 1:11 am

Oh my god that comment is so fake.

Your didn’t STUDY pickup companies ;)

The blueprint is a MASTERPIECE => That’s the word Tyler used to describe the blueprint. You’re obviously an RSD sheep if you use that same word ;)

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Paul April 25, 2009 at 2:33 pm

The Blueprint is something every man should watch. Everyone has a right to their opinion and space in time but damn, this is some incredible stuff. I simply cannot grasp how a guy this young put it all together. I’m in awe. Paul

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David Gideon May 1, 2009 at 9:57 am

Tyler Durden. His early post are great and taught me a lot. His blog is pretty awesome. Foundations was very good for me when as I started the learning process. The Jeffy Show was also hilarious and filled with value.

Blueprint Decoded. I don’t know what the hell happened. This program was a rambling mess. Maybe it’s because I’ve studied a lot of personal development already… But you’d be much better off reading Eckhart Tolle, Anthony Robbins, David Deida, and Napoleon Hill directly and then combining those understandings with your pick up skills.

It just seemed like he couldn’t express what was on his mind or articulate the evolution from routine based game to natural. I don’t know.

By the way, I’m discovering that most of the things I hear from every “pickup guru” were borrowed or adapted from David Deangelo in one way or another. Has anyone else noticed this? Yet, David D., the most successful of them all, is the only one who seems to acknowledge others and not take full credit for everything.

As for Mehow.. Just walk up to girls and act gay seems to be his philosophy in action. Only joking, but I do get this impression from watching his youtube videos. I admit, I get a nice tidbit of information from him every now and then. And I must say, I haven’t actually gone through any of his entire programs so correct me if I’m wrong.

By the way, Has anyone gone through Mystery’s Revelation Course? What did you think?

David Gideon

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Dimitri May 16, 2009 at 8:37 am

This web site sucks cock. You jerks need to focus less on crying
about rsd and get a life. RSD has some real kick ass products. Everything that came from thunder cat is so lame. Thunder cat go F@^k
your self.

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trash May 21, 2009 at 1:31 pm

My friend starts into a pitch for me to attend a RSD bootcamp…for $1500. He says he did it, talked to an amazingly hot woman during his training at a local bar, swore by the method and plans on attending another one.

So I look into it for about a week. RSD websites, ripped and copied DVDs, blogs (man the egos on these guys), books, magazine articles…There is no shortage on theory on being the alpha male. And you cannot deny results. But in my quest for details, I find all of these methods can be found in cheap behavorial sceince and female psychology books(you might try a serious espionage manual too, since they teach the same stuff). Big smile, a catchy opener, control of the conversation, some basic clinical techinques (i.e. triangular gazing), and practice, practice, practice…actually getting out there and getting over your personal fears. That’s simple.

No, really. It’s simple. Make an effort and don’t quit. That’s an alpha male. So my take, after some serious soul searching: my friend paid some guys $1500 to FORCE him to talk to the hottest girl in a bar, after grilling and preparing a preset opener and conversation. The reality is if he can’t close a deal under those conditions, then he can’t pour piss out of a boot with the directions on the bottom. And most of the blogs and videos are of seemingly ADOLESCENT BOYS (very ambercrombie and fitch). They act like children, as if the only thing to life is hunting for chicks…DUDE. And its telling that most of these guys, including my friend, have a significant heart-breaking event (i.e. Loverboy (above), and others) which turns them to a life of meaningless sex, binge drinking, and shallow social interactions. Oh yeah, and perfecting their game technique. Very clinical when the whole goal is to close the deal.

Sounds FUN. Though it is my opinion, and you can take it with a grain of salt, they are trading one emotional dilemma for another equally destructive one. So the next time you are out, day or night, and you see a good-looking woman you want to meet, save your money and grow a pair. Or don’t. There is an alternative. http://www.realsocialdynamics.com

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gigi May 22, 2009 at 9:28 am

>> my friend paid some guys $1500 to FORCE him to talk to the hottest girl in a bar

Isn’t that the problem of 90% of those who are unsuccessful with women? Completely normal guys who simply don’t have the mental stregth to live through the discomfort of playing a numbers game.

So they pay $1500 for someone to tell them that “it’s ok to get rejected and they should keep approaching”.

Now they don’t feel like losers anymore because the guru said it’s ok to be like that.

Whatever..

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The_Seducer May 25, 2009 at 2:46 am

What the fukk?!

Instead of criticizing we should TEST and see WHAT works for us! Hell… If you’re good with patterns, then use it! IF you are amazing with RSD, then USE IT for fukk’s sake! (Literally) If you’re good with “NaturaL” Structured Game, then, fukking use it!

Now, now, guys… let’s stop criticizing or challenging or shitttt…. cuz after all the pick-ups, seductions, blow-jobs, etc… WE ARE GOING TO DIE! aNd Guess what?
There’s no “Game” that will bring us back. THINK ABOUT THIS.

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Pavel June 16, 2009 at 5:12 am

Company Real Social Dynamics is unfair! I payed 2 x $47 for Real Social Dynamics Prague LIVE Workshop – April 23, 2009 (I payed it two times, because I payed for me and my friend). I thought, that it is refundable deposit. On their page is information: “Free Workshops – $47 Registration Fee – Refundable Provided You Attend”. It’s two months ago and no money back! I sent them 3 e-mails, no answer. I tried to call them (all their phones from web page) – noone is taking up the phone. On the workshop I filled some document, where I signed, that I want my money back. It wasn’t true, they are not good people. Real Social Dynamics, Inc. is unfair company!

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Truth June 16, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Truth June 16, 2009 at 9:13 pm

Some of the guys here say that giving any kind of publicity to RSD (negative or otherwise) would only help them. I disagree. If you expose a ponzi-scheme, you don’t help the scheme operators, you hurt them. When Neil Strauss, in his book THE GAME, publicized the scarcity-mindset of Tyler and Papa, and the massive manipulation these 2 guys practiced, it did not help RSD, it HURT them. Before the book, RSD were respected all around. After the book, not so much.

People need to know the truth. For instance, did you know that when you attend any kind of RSD event, even an introductory talk, they ask you to sign a declaration which states that you will not “own, operate or work for a company that teaches men how to be successful with women or dating, for 4 years after attending the program”.

This is odd because you cannot be truly attractive unless you first have an abundance mindset. Which is why scarcity-minded guys like Tyler and Papa can teach you tricks to manipulate yourself into a girl’s pants, but they cannot teach you how to be authentically attractive, because they need help in that department themselves.

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Pavel June 22, 2009 at 1:59 pm

It’s OK now. I sent more e-mails and requested money by Paypal. They sent money back. Why didn’t they make it automatic, I don’t know. Noone sent me “sory”. It looks like they think that I am the bad boy, because I want them to give me deposit back. Eh.

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Truth June 22, 2009 at 8:23 pm

@Pavel : “I sent more e-mails and requested money by Paypal.
They sent money back. Why didn’t they make it automatic, I don’t know.”

Pavel, they had indeed made it ‘AUTOMATIC’. They thought you would AUTOMATICALLY go away so they could AUTOMATICALLY keep the money. ;) Only when you sent them more reminders, did they realize you’re not going away, and so they refunded.

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Truth June 26, 2009 at 10:22 pm

Pavel, please go here and put your comment about your experience with RSD, so that others can be warned. Go here…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFs-xbnVDn8

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Captain Awesome June 28, 2009 at 6:41 am

So, what’s the point in this article? All I see is just alot of negativity.

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wobba June 28, 2009 at 2:09 pm

Pavel, how did you requested money from paypal? What did you say to them? I think i might be having the same problem. Thanks

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Truth June 29, 2009 at 7:52 pm

RSD rip-off report (in the words of a client)

https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/183/RipOff0183537.htm

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Truth July 2, 2009 at 6:44 pm

@ Captain Awesome : “So, what’s the point in this article? All I see is just alot of negativity”

You could see it as negativity or you could see it as a consumer alert. ;)

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John Galt July 9, 2009 at 12:03 pm

It’s really weird. I see a lot of people complaining about RSD, saying that they just teach people how to “minipulate” girls. Thing is, RSD is the opposite of that. They don’t teach canned material at all, I don’t know wtf you guys are talkig about. Besides that, all those people who don’t get anything from it are probably just frustrated because they can’t get a quick fix. Anyone out there who hasn’t watched the blueprint, go download the torrent. seriously. I read the mystery method before, and I was like “yeah I can see this working”, but then I heard people talking about RSD so I checked that out and I got completely blown away. Everything just seemed so much more real, it wasn’t about spitting out lines, it was about not needing lines, ever. I’ve NEVER used pickup lines, and I’ve become much better at “pickup”.

The reason why they have alienated themselves from the community is because they aren’t really part of the community anymore

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Shaun July 9, 2009 at 2:52 pm

Yeah… right…

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gogo July 10, 2009 at 5:18 am

John Galt, you really don’t get it. Nobody is manipulating women… not even RSD. Canned material isn’t manipulating women either.

RSD is manipulating men… and you are one of their victims. Like any sect, the victims are weak minded and have an issue they desperately need to fix… you have no women in your life, that’s why RSD’s mind control tactics are working. I don’t expect you to admit it, I know you won’t… victims of sects never admit anything because they are soooo fucking brainwashed they are not even thinking by themselves.

Can you explain what you mean when you say that RSD is not part of the community… because that made me laugh :)

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Truth July 10, 2009 at 10:01 pm

@ gogo : “RSD is manipulating men”

Truer words haven’t been spoken. :)

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trash July 13, 2009 at 12:07 pm

Good call, gogo.

RSD has structured the entire hierarchy similar to an intelligence service rather than self-help for ex-frat daddies. Tyler Durden? Lame.

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KnightShift July 17, 2009 at 1:14 pm

I have taken a RSD boocamp in April and I found it extreamly good. It was very subtle and bit like seing the matrix.
However it did work and my good game improved 1000 fold.

Brad ran the boot camp and he’s a very chiled out professional. Gave very sharp apprisal.

Improvement: 10/10
Downside: Bit low budget for the money paid.

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Truth July 18, 2009 at 10:27 pm

Dude, nothing personal at you, but any chode’s game improves when he sees the matrix. My game improved 1000-fold when I was a chode and saw the matrix for the first time.

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KnightShift July 19, 2009 at 2:15 am

Ths is true.

When we think we are the best we don’t need a lesson.

But the very best still refere to other people in all aspects, Tennis, Football and the Game. We all have weaknesses and often abjective advice always helps.

You’ll find this out as you mature and find out what the Truth really means.

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Kman July 20, 2009 at 1:41 am

This is bullshit, they do the exact opposite of manipulating themselves into women’s pants. Thats Mystry Method or any of that shit. RSD is about finding yourself so you dont need any canned shit. It empowers you to find yourself attractive so that you dont need pre prepared lines and openers, you just do whatever you want and the women will still find you attractive. And that nonesens about not being a massive part of the community? RSD wants a limited fanbase so that their methods arent known to a huge number of men. VH1 initially offered Tyler The Pick up Artists Show but he declined due to his integrity.

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Truth July 20, 2009 at 7:26 am

Dude, you sound like a chode in a trance. When you get out of your trance, maybe you’ll ‘get’ my post.

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gogo July 20, 2009 at 9:27 am

Anyone using the word “chose” is probably a RSD brainwashed follower. It happens that Truth (who is using that word) is defending RSD.

Do I need to say more?

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Truth July 20, 2009 at 9:42 am

The Truth created this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFs-xbnVDn8

Need he say more? ;)

Btw, the Truth hails from India, which is where the word chode originated, and is still part of common parlance.

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trash July 22, 2009 at 12:52 pm

Maybe so Kman. But the actions and characters of guys out there filming antics in hotels and blogging, not to mention the montage videos of groups of guys systematically working a group of females in a bar or showing off all the bimbos they have nailed in the last year don’t give off the air of professionalism I’m sure Tyler wants to achieve. In fact, the exact opposite. I don’t see any mature men describing how RSD helped him nab the girl of their dreams or how they grew as an individual. I see adolescents; boys who never stopped to think that there may be more to life than getting some. Boys who don’t want the party to stop. I’m just a “hater,” I know. But Tyler isn’t in a healthy relationship with one woman. He’s globtrotting looking for the next one. As are his little minions. So until Tyler writes a book about being the best ALL-AROUND man, he will remain a simple but masterful manipulator.

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Donovan July 22, 2009 at 1:55 pm

Great comment Trash. Very well thought out points.

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The-Architect August 7, 2009 at 9:49 pm

This is a pathetic post. RSD changes lives and deserves all the respect it can get.

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Truth August 10, 2009 at 10:15 am

@ The-Architect : Another knee-jerk reaction from another washed brain ;)

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CK August 11, 2009 at 7:57 am

@ The-Architect,
That’s a “Leave Britney alone” comment…

Leave RSD alone…

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Nolan August 29, 2009 at 8:10 am

Hey, could someone please explain how RSD is manipulating men?

I don’t really get it. They don’t diss other companys, they don’t say that their word is absolute truth, they basically say “This is what I’ve found, but don’t just take my word for it, go out and try it, and correct me if I’m wrong.” It seems to me like their purpose is to get guys to be the best they can be, and they don’t say that their way is the only way, they encourage people to read different things. I’ve even heard Tyler saying that David DeAngelo really helped him out and he encouraged people to watch his stuff.

Anyway, lemme know what you’re opinion is.

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Truth September 1, 2009 at 11:59 pm

@ Nolan:

Thanks to groups like this one, if Tyler’s realized he has no choice but to become a cool guy, then…good for him. ;)

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Nolan September 2, 2009 at 3:30 am

@Truth
You know, I seriously think that might be the case. But I don think it is groups like this, I think it was the Game. I remember him saying somewhere that a few years back, he decided that he really had to grow up after all that bad press he took. That’s why he moved to Hawaii where nobody knew who he was and lives in a 400′ apartment. Really tried to humble himself. Started meditating, a lot of soul searching.

I mean there’s a good chance that you’re right about Tyler from back in the days of Project Hollywood, and he probably was a complete dick but people change man. I’ve changed in the past two years (for the better), so why couldn’t he have? And honestly, that change is 100% because of RSD. They weren’t my only source, but I found all those other things through the Blueprint or RSDNation. They are the reason I’ve started developing myself not as ‘pick up artist’ but as a human being.

I don’t know how many people here actually saw the Blueprint videos, but that shit was completely life changing and perspective altering for me. It eliminated a lot of limiting beliefs, and instilled a lot of good ones. They aren’t ALL in there yet, but I know what I’m aiming at. I’ve even changed habbits. I’ve gone from a student who get’s 75-80 to a 95+ marks (yeah yeah this one was actually more attributed to 7 Habbits of Highly Effective people, but still, if I had never found RSD and started this whole thing, I would never have found that book and taken it seriously.)

So I dunno, I think you all probably have good reason for thinking Tyler is some sort of manipulating tool. But shit guys, give em a second chance. Watch the blueprint(and you dont have to buy it, use fucking torrents or something), the WHOLE blueprint (yes it’s long but i think each part is inseperable from the whole), and more importantly, look at it with a fresh set of eyes. Judge it as unbiasedly as you can.

I’m NOT saying worship hiim, I’m saying see what he has to say, put some faith into him at least until you go out and prove him wrong. They don’t say “This is true!” they say, “Don’t take my word for it, GO OUT and try it!”and you should, because I honestly think there is a lot of value there, and I’d say it’s coming straight from his core.

But whatever, I can’t change your minds, that’s something you guys gotta do yourself. In order to grow, you must eliminate negativity, and you are the only ones who can do that for you. Who a man was 10 years ago (unless he was a serial killer and just got out of jail) should have no bearing on what you think of him today. So check it, objectively…

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Nolan September 2, 2009 at 3:41 am

Oh, and as for the whole “this books been in the making for 6 years! This has got to be bullshit.” Well I understand that. He’s trying to make the most complete book he can, he’s trying to go as deeply into this as he can and find out the center of the mountain when it comes to all this stuff. That doesn’t take just one year to do, and they realise this, they aren’t even saying when it’s coming out cause they have no idea. Not even prospecting. Tyler mentioned once that he’s just constantly finding new stuff and refining (using a lot of mining metaphors aren’t I)it, and solidifying it.

That being said, when it does come out, it’s probably gonna be fucking nuts.

Love <3 :D

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trash September 2, 2009 at 9:06 am

Good comments, Nolan. Nice to see someone defending RSD who doesn’t get defensive and emotional when a criticism arrises. Everyone does deserve a little slack and I don’t think Tyler, or most people for that matter, are a waste of space. And communities, within reason, are a good thing. People helping people, right? So I have no problems there.

My friend, who has become a radical devotee, tried to set me on to RSD after he attended a boot camp. I was intrigued by the clinical tactics but unimpressed with the community, as I have stated in a few above posts.

Everybody needs some help when they go to the gym. Whether you get that from a trainer or a friend who spots you, or even a book on the subject or a P90X DVD; the fact is you don’t start out knowing or executing like a professional. Give a little credit to the people who started you out, but watch that you don’t idolize the system or the people who started it. After all, they may have shown you a trick or two, but who is the one doing all the running and heavy lifting, working toward that peak condition or goal? It’s you. And if you get where you wanted to go, good for you, DON’T BE AN ASS ABOUT IT.

And Nolan, you should write the book on how to pimp RSD with class.

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Truth September 2, 2009 at 10:01 am

@Trash “And Nolan, you should write the book on how to pimp RSD with class”

LOL!

@Nolan Like Trash said, thank god for not being a whiny bitch like supporters of RSD tend to be on this forum.

Just a couple of months back (in July, 2009) at an RSD promotional talk, PAPA asked all attendees to sign a document which said that they would not “own, operate or work for a company that teaches men how to be successful with women, for 4 years”. After the guys signed, they were asked to show their photo ID and the signatures verified! This was no token formality…the RSD guys were anal about it. I remember one of the attendees asking PAPA, whether if he conducted seminars later but did not use any RSD material, would RSD still prevent him from conducting seminars? PAPA’s reply : “There is no way for us to monitor if you’re using our material, so you cannot conduct seminars for 4 years”

The guy then asked PAPA something that I’ll never forget. He said, “The basis of good gamesmanship is to come from abundance. How can you guys come from such scarcity and claim to teach good game?” PAPA did not even respond, just ignored him completely and continued talking to the rest of the audience as if this guy didn’t exist. Just a cold-hearted ignore.

The guy walked out of the room calmly, earning the silent respect of the rest of us.

I lost all respect for RSD after that incident. And I created this video to honour that guy : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFs-xbnVDn8

Tyler and Papa learnt from Mystery and started taking workshops IMMEDIATELY, teaching others what Mystery taught them. They even named their company after Mystery’s company which used to be called SOCIAL DYNAMICS. And now they are making guys sign such stringent legalese during a promotional event?

Thanks to the GAME, we all know what rats Tyler and Papa were during their stay at Project Hollywood. Nolan, if you say that they have turned over a new leaf since the GAME was published, well…the GAME came out in 2006, and RSD were still behaving like rats in July 2009.

Go figure.

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Nolan September 2, 2009 at 1:10 pm

@Truth

I see you’re point, but try to understand their viewpoint aswell. Like, can you get pick up material copyrighted? They aren’t saying you can’t teach it to your friends for free, they just mean you can’t sell it to other people. Sure they learned from mystery, but that’s his problem, he didn’t have the business mind to think of that. I mean, they ARE running a buisiness, it’s how they’ve decided to make a living.

And besides, that is kind of irrelevant when it comes to whether or not their material is any good. Anyway, supper’s ready. I’ll check back later.

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trash September 2, 2009 at 2:14 pm

@Nolan

Keeping people from making money off of what is their’s is their right as businessmen. Seduction techniques and methods have been around since the Renaissance and most of their material is intermediate psychology and cold reading. They really can’t claim to have “original” material, since the only thing that has changed since that time is the scenery.

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Truth September 2, 2009 at 4:54 pm

@Nolan

“they just mean you can’t sell it to other people”

You can’t stop anyone from selling what does not belong to you.
I thought that was commonsense. ;)

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Nolan September 2, 2009 at 5:46 pm

@Truth

I don’t really understand. What you say does have merit in some sence but not completely.

I’m sure Steven Covey has all his stuff copyrighted so that people can’t steal it when he gives a seminar. Nobody judges that, but see RSD’s stuff isn’t copyrighted, so instead they make this contract.

I mean seriously, say a bunch of representitives from Microsoft went to apple to figure out how the iPod was made. Do you think Apple would let them just take all this info? Of course not. Sure, Microsoft could just buy iPods and than reverse engeneer them, but any other pick up company could do the same thing by getting torrents or something.

It’s a little ignorant to try and blame a company for not wanting to help their compitition.

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Nolan September 2, 2009 at 5:51 pm

@Truth

And please, don’t take what I said as a jab at you. I mean I understand ya but at the same time, that’s business for ya. It happens all the time in every industry. Electronics, construction, chemistry, medicine. That’s capitalism for ya. Love it, leave it, or change it. Or just stop giving a shit.

Latez

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Nolan September 2, 2009 at 5:56 pm

@Trash

Thanks for the compliments I guess. I just think it’s kind of dumb to try and flame each other. Get’s you nowheres. I’m all for discussion but when you start bringing emotion into it discussion turns ugly. That’s how wars are started. Non resistance is the key.

Although Truth definately makes some valid points I still don’t see it completely his way. Like I said, we live in a capitalist economy, this is how it works. I understand and respect their decision and think that all the other companys should do that to. It’s common businiess sence. Doesn’t effect the quality of the content.

Hope ye’s have a good night.

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Truth September 2, 2009 at 6:15 pm

@Nolan

“Like I said, we live in a capitalist economy, this is how it works.”

Really? Oh Nolan, thanks for explaining why copyright protection is needed in a capitalist economy. I’m afraid you haven’t displayed the cerberal competence to follow a thread logically. But then, you’re an RSD admirer, so that’s understandable. ;)

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Nolan September 3, 2009 at 2:18 am

@Truth

Here we go with the flamming…*sigh*

I didn’t say it was necissary. People do this, it’s been done for years. Survival of the fittest type of a thing. Like I said, countless other examples in other industries that also do it. Does t hat mean that they need to do it in a capitalist economy? Fuck no. But people do.

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Nolan September 3, 2009 at 2:25 am

I’d like to hear other peoples arguements. I mean, Truth here has oviously developed a strong emotional attatchment to the idea of not liking RSD. So I’d rather see the arguements of people who aren’t so determined.

(LoL, I’m probably gonna get flamed for THAT too!)

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Mystic September 6, 2009 at 9:04 pm

@Nolan

Trash said “…And Nolan, you should write the book on how to pimp RSD with class” LOL…I agree. You’re being all cutesy (and going under the radar) while pushing RSD. Nice try!

Truth said “…you haven’t displayed the cerberal competence to follow a thread logically”. LOL! That’s a polite way of saying, “You retard, you just don’t get it”. And I kinda agree. LOL!

Everybody knows copyright protection is necessary, so quit lecturing us on that. This is not about whether copyright is required in a capitalist economy, but about RSD claiming copyright (by including that clause in their contracts) over content that is not theirs. And btw since you’re such an evangelist for copyright protection, why torrent RSD’s copyright protected stuff? Put your money down and buy the shit, stop stealing. ;)

And lastly, please do us all a favor. Stop being all cutesy while propping up RSD. It’s obvious that you’re here to defend RSD, you’re just not man enough to do it openly.

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Chad September 10, 2009 at 4:36 am

Hmmn… at the “Bootcamp”, pay careful attention to what the “Instructors” are saying… They use more Patterns, Routines, and NLP on the guys then the ladies…

I feel much sorrow that these are touted as the ‘elite’ of the Seduction Community…

If you want true results;

1. ASK YOURSELF: If True Seduction is a Natural Process, how has Sexploitation of the female form, made women more desparate? WHO BENEFITS FROM THIS SEPARATION? WRITE THEM DOWN!

2. Ask yourself, how come women percieve you ACTING Like a “Nice Guy” as SELFISH? Also, what are the consequences of her relenting to your ACT? WRITE down all thoughts, no matter how ridiculious they may be.

3. BRAINSTORM the worse case scenarios… and then Ways you can handle it.

4. WRITE A LIST, What are parts of myself would I like to change? BRAINSTORM WAYS TO ENHANCE EVERYTHING ON YOUR FIRST LIST, and DO AS MANY AS YOU CAN!

5. WRITE A LIST of what YOU LIKE ABOUT YOURSELF? BRAINSTORM WAYS TO ENHANCE EVERYTHING ON YOUR FIRST LIST, and DO AS MANY AS YOU CAN!

6. WRITE A LIST of you would do with the time that you spend “Meeting Women”? THEN DO THEM INSTEAD!

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Bill September 10, 2009 at 5:27 pm

Love loverboys story. That video got me into the game. Respect.

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Nolan September 11, 2009 at 2:49 am

@Mystic

I like you. You’ve done what I asked, good arguements, without the excessive angryness.

But I’m not really trying to be cutesy. To me, excessively emotional discussions are more frustrating than anything. You pointed out my faults well haha. Yeah, I would like to buy the RSD stuff, but I don’t have the money at the moment. Also, I am a terribly shitty writer. I’ve never been great at putting words to paper. I’m better at math and physics.

Anyway the only other thing that I really have to say is that I don’t see RSD as taking stuff from other company’s. I actually read the Mystery Method, Tynan’s Make Girls Chase Me, and about the first quarter of the game before finding RSD. I definately saw the connections but overall, RSD was completely different. It’s based off of different principles which, in my opinion, are healthier. It’s like what Stephen Covey said. There’s personality ethics, and there’s character ethics. MM and whatnot focus’s on PE while RSD focus’s on CE. Anyways, I gotta go. Shoot.

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Paul September 19, 2009 at 7:03 am

@ Truth

Surely RSD’s material does belong to them? Or should a company not be rewarded for hundreds of hours of work of arranging material as they have done. There are very few truly original ideas out there.
Right or wrong, most educational books forbid reproduction in part or full of their work, or, making any profit from their material.

It is silly to single out RSD for this.

All this is irrelevant anyway if you dont want to become a teacher. If you are at a seminar you’re several years off becoming an instructor anyway so it’s just nitpicking.

Grow up and stop hating.

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Truth September 21, 2009 at 8:26 pm

@Paul

Either you’ve not read enough of the thread to comment intelligently or you’re another brainwashed goat. I’m leaning towards the latter.

p.s. Interesting how the only support for RSD seems to come from guys with comprehension deficits.

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Paul September 22, 2009 at 12:35 am

@ Truth

A reframe is not a valid substitute for a good argument.

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Truth September 22, 2009 at 12:42 am

@Paul

Life is too short to spend presenting ‘good arguments’ to every one of RSD’s brainwashed goats

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trash September 22, 2009 at 10:04 am

@ Paul for Sept 19 post.

The complaint towards RSD was the fact that they are so very protective of material, which in part, has been taught by other methods of pick-up. And RSD and the instructor’s of the game should make money off their hard work, as should everyone. The difference is the way RSD and the student’s handle the game compared to other companies. They want to act as though their method is far superior to any others, as if it holds some deep mysterious secret which can’t be found elsewhere. Which is short-sighted and slightly arrogant considering their field. The bottom-line, absolute bottom of it is this: while RSD is perpetuating this one world view, there is still a overwhelming democratic majority of emotionally secure, strong-minded, independent men and women who do not resort to self-help to pick up dates, one night stands or their ideal mate.

I know, because I’m one of them. And only one person I know personally perpetuates this crap. It is obvious to me now where he learned it. Your behavior here is indicative to the RSD standard. You tuned this post out because to you, I’m just hating, as you put it, and that I just need to grow up. I say to you, sir, YOU are the one who needs to grow up and join the legions of people who want to achieve something in life aside from a quick lay. Because this self-help, life program RSD has put together is selfish in its creed and personally destructive to the people trying to practice it. It’s not elevating men or women socially or dynamically. Because there is no one-line pick up or universal standard all women hope to get it by. Because being a man is universal enough. And if you are slightly shaken by this, then your still a boy. Go back to the drawing board and apologize to Truth.

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CK September 22, 2009 at 1:33 pm

@Paul,
A reframe??? Oh my god, you’re so into RSD that you can’t even speak like a human being.

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Coco September 22, 2009 at 1:39 pm

Personally, I don’t care that RSD is protective of “their” material. They stole everything to Ross Jeffries, Dr. Paul and old school stuff, but I’m fine with that.

My issues with RSD are:
- the way they don’t care about their students. You can see it clearly in the reviews guys give after the bootcamps.
- the internal discussions in RSD’s instructor forum a few years ago (released by Thundercat) where they say that it’s not important that the students improve… What’s important are the reviews. So they developed techniques to influence the reviews.
- Barry kirkey (ex RSD instructor), in his show, explained a few times the way they treated students, mostly Tyler.

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Paul September 22, 2009 at 3:46 pm

All I gotta say is that for guys who are liberal minded you are very quick to judge. Im not an RSD homeboy. The community has some real sickness that normal, cool people not associated with the game can see.
I showed the past few posts to a few of my pals (among them Premier League footballers) and we all think you are very funny.

Live life to the fool and stop getting involved in community bitchiness. It;s lame.

Peace!

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Nolan September 22, 2009 at 5:47 pm

@Truth

So, you say people who study self development so that they can be come better people, which just so happens to help with the ladies, should grow up. Don’t you realize that’s what they’re trying to do? That’s the whole point of self development.

You’re an emotionally secure, strong-minded independent man. Great, I’m seriously happy for you. But you shouldn’t condemn people who aren’t. Especially if they’re trying to become everything you just said you are. If this is really your problem with RSD, try putting yourself in the shoes of a “chode” who wants to get good with girls. Would you want to learn a bunch of lines to cover up the real you? Or would you want to find a place where people help you reveal the real you?

Another thing. You say RSD is supporting a one world view, well that’s just not true, and it’s been noted by the instructors, especially Tyler, many times. But I’m not getting into that for now.

But, I don’t really know what you’re problem with RSD is. Is it that they copyright the stuff that they’ve spent time putting together, but were influenced by many many other things? Or is it that they teach self development, instead of pickup lines and tactics, as a way to meet women?

Later.

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Chad (PPUA) September 22, 2009 at 8:42 pm

Guys, there is no point in arguing with the Mind-Scrubbed Drones of RSD.

They do not realise the contradictions which they type and say.

They are Hooked within The Social Matrix, and if we try to unhook them too early, they will fight against everything we teach here.

@ Nolan; The problem is that they Copyright OTHER PEOPLES IDEAS!

Then they won’t even talk to you about it, unless you go to the workshop that’s flogging your idea, where they make you sign a Commercial Waiver, that means even when they admit it, you can’t challenge them for 5 years.

RSD has stolen so many of my Ideas, that the book I wrote, cannot be published, (they used that waiver to dismiss my challenge to the injunction,)

What sickens me more is to know that they don’t even teach my whole Natural Game system I wrote .

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trash September 23, 2009 at 6:48 am

@ Nolan.

Good post, valid points. Paul’s comment about nitpicking and his challenge to Truth grow up was my target. I didn’t start that ball rolling. I’m not being unreasonable here. RSD, though I do not use or have any special feelings toward, is a self-help program. And like any self-help program, they are only good to a point. I’ve posted on this previously. Self-help being the billion dollar industry it is, there are quite a few not so well-intentioned human beings working in the field, so a lot of gulible people get taken. Reasonable suspicion is warranted, even with RSD’s good intentions, because $1500 a person for a bootcamp isn’t exactly charity work.

Reason and fairness: RSD is a company. They can charge whatever they want. With my blessings.

My condemnation is not reserved for guys out there struggling to find a date or a girlfriend. It is targeted at guys who’s major objective is to nail every bitch and ho they can with no regard for manners or no though of treating others with the same respect they wish to be treated. Just look at ANY blog you wish or ANY youtube vids. Refer back to my July 22nd post. Paul said it was unfair to target RSD exclusively, but let’s face what fact there is: no other self-help, dating, become-the-guy-of-her-dreams program is being discussed in the same manner that RSD devotees are (which is good for business and probably a long-term plan).

I want to be very clear here. My issue isn’t with RSD as a company, the price, it’s teachings, or why one of the founder’s would set himself in such high-esteem alongside a ficticious literary character. I will be so bold as to say that most haters here agree with me. My issue (and boldly, everyone else’s) is with the over-zealousness and the adolescent minded followers who treat this with the same reverence as big-game hunting or their favorite sport, notches in the belt and all.

It may not be a reflection of the program or its goals. But the ones who are using this to better themselves aren’t speaking up enough.

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Truth September 23, 2009 at 9:33 am

@ Nolan

Nolan, the quintessential RSD retard…long time no see! Where have you been? Oh I get it, you’ve been lurking in the shadows waiting for some support and now that you’ve found some, you have lunged right back in with your toy spear. That’s being alpha alright. ;)

Ok, first off…EVERY thing you have attributed to me is incorrect. I have said nothing EVER about asking anybody to “grow up”. You meant to respond to @Trash. Please focus (I know it can be tough for you, but try) and quote correctly.

@ Trash

I agree with you partly. I agree that nothing RSD teaches is original. The sum and substance of RSD’s syllabus was generated by Mystery and Neil Strauss. But I disagree with you when you say that this education is not useful. The art of approaching and connecting with a woman is about bringing out your own best personality, which helps a guy not just with women but in every sphere of life. If a guy can do this NATURALLY, good for him. But most guys can’t. I believe that this education should be made mandatory for every adult male.

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trash September 23, 2009 at 2:28 pm

@ Truth.

I agree you with you totally. They should have a class for interaction for both sexes, because guys don’t always make the mistakes. A class on social ethics would be very beneficial to anyone who took it. You can apply that kind of knowledge to a career in any field and succeed, no doubt in my mind.

The question I ask of RSD guys is this: What is your intention once you aquire this skill? And I only ask it of them and not from people in other methods because I don’t see mass vid.docs of teams of guys working some girls at a bar like a pick-pocket crew.

And on a personal note, I may be hard on you guys in here, but I’m harder on my RSD friend. Much love.

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Paul September 23, 2009 at 2:37 pm

@ trash

The only substantive argument I can find in response to me against RSD is this:

“The difference is the way RSD and the student’s handle the game compared to other companies. They want to act as though their method is far superior to any others, as if it holds some deep mysterious secret which can’t be found elsewhere.”

In fact this is not the case. Whilst coherent in theory it simply isnt borne out in the real world. Care to quote any representative of RSD fairly to show this point?

Your arguments, so far as I can tell, are against single-minded followers of RSD. It seems to me every school attracts such people and being so sensitive to RSD is really rather silly.

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Paul September 23, 2009 at 2:38 pm

@ Truth

You can’t write a post without insulting people so come on please dude lol.

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Nolan September 23, 2009 at 3:10 pm

@Trash

Nice post. I agree with you completely. Personally, I’m not a notches on the bed post kind of guy, and I don’t see RSD as an end all be all. They are a great resource, and all though they aren’t perfect, take what works for you, discard the rest. Although I must say, the kids who are trying to bang every hot girl isn’t just a RSD, I guarantee, just as many or more use tactics.

@Truth
I agree with Paul, you are too eager to insult. It’s rather ‘UNATTRACTIVE’ (lol)

Anyways. I’m sick of this, it’s pretty much completely irrelevant. All you are on your journey, an I’m on mine. Were going different places, and thats fucking fine.

Peace out forever dudes. Check out RSD, don’t take things so seriously. Get what you like out of them, and ignore the rest. There’s a lot of value there. Besides that, check out everything else too. RSD’s not the end all be all, and nor do they claim to be.

Trash, Paul, good stuff.

- Nolan

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Truth September 23, 2009 at 10:59 pm

@Nolan @Paul
I apologize if my words have offended you. Sorry! *hugs*

But that doesn’t change the fact that RSD (with the exception of Tim) is a bunch of needy, scarcity-minded twits out to make a quick buck using Mystery and Neil Strauss’ material.

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trash September 24, 2009 at 10:53 am

@ Paul.

No quote for you. Good point. I haven’t talked with an RSD rep on their ethos or creed. And the single-minded drone is all I have talked to up to this point. It’s not so wrong to judge a company or product on the customers, or vice versa. And the best thing about being on the outside looking in is there is no emotion, just respect and clear judgement. If my words are to hard, sticks and stones, man.

@ Nolan.

You’re right. I imagine anyone learning how to date or talk to girls is looking for a perk, not just RSD guys. More is more, no argument there. And I would never say that’s a bad thing…

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Kevin 6 October 1, 2009 at 10:10 am

@ truth. You wouldn’t even know bro. Years ago if you taken a bootcamp from both maybe you could say that.(which I know they taught different material). But nowadays rsd is nothing like MM or VA or LS. They’re completly different. What they teach works and can only be found in their bootcamps/products.

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Truth October 6, 2009 at 5:39 pm

@Kevin 6
You say : “nowadays rsd is nothing like MM or VA or LS. They’re completly different”

Kevin, words are cheap. :) What do you mean by “completely different”? What RSD teaches is both good and original, but the parts that are good are not original and the parts that are original are not good.

But more to the point, even if they did teach something they think is unique, when they insist in their contract that the client “cannot teach pickup for 4 years”, and he cannot even teach his OWN material, that reveals a scarcity mindset. And the simple truth is, you cannot be great at pickup when you come from scarcity.

Actually, what can you expect from a company whose founder (Tyler) used keylogging software to break into Mystery’s and Style’s email accounts while living and working with them! Tyler is scarcity personified.

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matthew January 5, 2010 at 8:08 am

They charge $2000 for a seminar? they have no university qualifications, sure they have life experience but you would learn more from a seminar in social psychology, which they are just going to regurgitate to you anyhow.

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Remmy January 14, 2010 at 2:36 am

RSD The Blueprint got me over the worse break up of my life and for that I am ever grateful to Tyler.

It is a fantastic 4 day DVD that not only helps with women but with all other aspects of your life.

RSD forums are brilliant and I think RSD are better than any other pick up line based nonsense out there.

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Truth January 14, 2010 at 5:50 pm

“It’s a fantastic 4 day DVD”….
“not only helps with women but with all other aspects of your life”…

Ha, ha, ha…this guy is not even capable of plugging his company’s (RSD) products without exposing himself. He pretends to be a genuine testimonial, but as is obvious, it’s a shameless plug.

That’s what RSD does to you. It completely removes you from reality and makes you feel you are the coolest. Even if the only sex partner you have is your hand, you are made to feel like a stud. As people who have hung out with Tyler say all the time, the guy never gets laid.

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magic January 30, 2010 at 1:47 pm

this is bullshit… Rsd is way better than these cocksuckers

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Ayme February 5, 2010 at 11:11 pm

LoooL Ure So full of …. ;) Why u dont like Rsd !? it’s because Tyler Said on one of his Dvd’s that Nothing Can Help You get Good with women Then GO OUT Daily and Talk to Them but as I Said u full of …… ure posting posts on the Internet And not Doing The Right Thing .

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Prague March 6, 2010 at 5:21 pm

So someone said something about someone else…and this makes it true..? This article is plain hearsay.

RSD have some cool products and are in some ways more ethical than today’s crop of dating/PUA companies who use appalling sales techniques. eg Vin Di Carlo with his countdowns to launch date, getting ‘thousands’ by their keypads ready to ‘read women within one minute’, abuse of reciprocity sales techniques, scarcity tactics etc.

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Nolan March 8, 2010 at 12:24 pm

I’ve been watching David DeAngelo’s Man Transformations and I see the other side’s point a little more clearly. That program is very similar to the Blueprint in it’s approach (I.e.Inner game)but it is still very different. I must say, RSD’s material is great, and so is DD’s. I don’t like MM but that’s just because I’m not into lines. Whatever works for ya I guess, but don’t diss shit if you haven’t given it a fair chance.

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Nolan March 8, 2010 at 12:26 pm

Looks like my “peace out forever” comment was a lie. But still.

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Pat-ster March 9, 2010 at 11:13 am

Haha, you are weird and funny!

I can’t say I promote any guru or seduction site since I pick up chicks as ‘au natural’ as I can. Some times it I hit, some times not but it doesn’t matter since I don’t need to get laid every night, I don’t even need a new chick every week. So I don’t buy or read anything that involves “gaming” a chick or using tricks. I try to be as confident as I am and if she doesn’t like it then too bad.
Nothing wrong with gimmicks as long as you feel good and you get your penis wet.

To the point.
The funny part is that you’re obviously writing these bashing articles so that the fans of the other websites come here to read and defend their loved site where they’ve learned stuff and whatnot. More viewers = More advertisement = More ‘ca-ching’. Good it’s a buisness.
Then you of course talk good about the other websites that pay for advertising space, like “How to fuck a woman” or

If this website was in anyways HELPFUL then you would write FRs, articles and promote the good information and not bash the uninteresting. You’re more of a con-man than a ‘helping hand’ to new users and AFCs.

Now pardon for my english grammer, it is not my native language.
Pat-ster.

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Mike March 10, 2010 at 2:40 am

Damn, that’s crazy…

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Nolan March 10, 2010 at 4:30 am

Pat Ster makes a good point xD.

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Felipe March 29, 2010 at 9:08 pm

It seems like Tyler is sarging again. He said he recorded some infield videos in HD and everything. Take a look!

http://rsdfreetour.com/

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wacky May 28, 2010 at 6:10 am

wtf dude RSD is way better than MM

RSD- (woo) makes u great in social life and turns you into the sex-worthy man

MM- (hoo) makes you a social robot and a scared little troll (like you)

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bryan August 28, 2010 at 11:32 pm

the Non-compete agreement discussed by RSD is complete nonsense and utterly legally unenforceable .
Why any promotional seminar leader would be so condescending to assume that his attendees would actually be stupid enough to submit their earnings if they ever teach success with women within 4 years just because they signed some ,… it just astounds me.
Whether he’s a “jerk or cool” is besides the point and simply a subjective opinion. The fact is hes dumb to even try and pass the non compete agreement, even dumber if he paid some lawyer to write it for him and assumed his customers are dumbest if they actually believe it could ever be used against them.
that line cracks me up.. ” forfeit all income”… are you sure that wasnt just some april fools joke?

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Guy August 29, 2010 at 12:22 am

It wasn’t an April fool’s joke…apparently there were attendees who signed it. And one of the RSD representatives actually verified the signature by comparing it with that on the attendee’s ID.

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Mark October 1, 2010 at 2:18 am

These guys are, always were, and always will be a joke. I’ve met some of them in person and was not impressed. Talk about living in a delusional bubble. Glad sites like this are exposing them for what they are.

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Succe$s November 6, 2010 at 7:37 am

nice!!

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Alexander November 18, 2010 at 2:43 am

What I always appreciated about RSD was that they tell you you need to practice and that the seminar itself will not do the job. They have never promised me anything false, always emphasizing that it will be a struggle for a while, no magic pills. In 2 bootcamps, I met some of their key people, and some of them appeared very good to brillant, others seemed to be fresh interns putting on a confidece act. The only reason I have not benefitted as much as possible because I did not practice enough and got lazy with the hot girlfriend I had at the time. I will probably take another RSD bootcamp.

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Jeff January 5, 2011 at 11:19 pm

Your ethical buisness dealings link is dead.

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Editor January 6, 2011 at 3:33 pm

Might have removed it… I’ll check it. Thanks.

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Zardoz March 10, 2011 at 12:06 am

I have always been a fan of Tyler and RSD in general. I don’t care if he was a geek, or is a geek. The stuff I learned from him helped define who I am today. The day I finished the Blueprint I pulled a girl to my house for a bj. It took about an hour. All because I learned to be present. Thanks Tyler you weird genius fuck.

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Ivan May 8, 2011 at 11:22 am

the fact that they put lemon juice in your eyes and make you do approaches, made me ask a lot of questions. Like, how useful in any real life situations. After all we all have our lemons at hand when we are going to clubs :))

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kissan June 25, 2011 at 11:29 pm

Well, I’m a big fan of David D, Mytery, RSD and several others >at the same time<, I don't care how these guys relate to each other, whether they like or hate the other, irrelevant to me. And it's funny how some guys here keep hating any of these, putting in all their time and energy. It's so ridiculous, or rather: childish. Eg. what does it matter if I sign a paper not to teach stuff for 4 or 40 years? Come on, all that 99% of guys want is get successful with women. And for that, RSD is one of the best stuff out there. I have seen several materials, I have my own favourites, but RSD Blueprint is THE ultimate best piece of shit I have ever seen. It's not beginner stuff, but definitely a must see for anyone who is into pickup.

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jonoo August 22, 2011 at 6:39 am

i couldnt agree more with kissan, i used to think mystery and david D was the shit, and my first impression of rsd was low, as i started watching more of the blueprint, finally i was like HOLYSHIT, THIS IS FUCKING GOOD. i never once looked back at mystery or any other PUA out there, seriously guys the blueprint is BY FARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR the best shit out there.. and i cant under exaggerate that! it makes all other shit out there look like fucking beginner basic noob shit! it teaches the CORRECT way to be successful with women and not the ” HEY I GOT THIS COOL OPENER, WHAT DO YA THINK? ” type approach to it! seriously if you look down on rsd your a fucking DUMB CUNT!! sounds harsh but it probably means you have A. dont no shit about pick-up or B. know a lot of shit but have never watched the blueprint before.

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mystery August 31, 2011 at 12:15 am

My son did a course in London and has totally got a new ID that is great for him. Do you teach your members to abandon all there own beleifs and to totally shut out there past. My son has done all that and cut off all his family and friends after being involved with social dynamics, we do not know where he is and it has torn us apart, I think you should re-think the damage you do to families if this is what you teach. this has totally left me feeling that I have had a bereavement and I think it has screwed up my son by confusing his thoughts, I will never know what has happened to him …………….

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Sebastian October 9, 2011 at 11:57 am

Maybe you should spend less time hating and more time working on your product? In my experience RSD has always been excellent. The articles are spot on, Blueprint was a life changing program for me and transformations was pretty awesome too. It’s more about improving yourself really rather than learning a canned routine and IMO what I’ve learned from blueprint decoded has helped me a lot in other area’s of my life too. Seriously. I’d recommend you watch the blueprint too, its fucking awesome.

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Jayson November 1, 2011 at 5:20 pm

Rsd is good,
i’ve taken a bootcamp which was good, i’ve found their products valuable. Don’t know what this guy goes on about. No real substance to his criticism i feel.

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Gary Brodsky December 5, 2011 at 11:40 pm

Hey…Hey…hey… How are you doing? Gary Brodsky here!

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That guy December 17, 2011 at 7:12 pm

There was this guy from RSD who came to our lair to do a mini-conference and at the end, he wanted us to post on thoughts about it on RSD nation in the Testomonials section.

The other guys posted positive messages and posted a message about what I was satisfied and said a few things that they could have improved. You know.. give constructive critisim so that they can do better the next time.

I posted it and the next day, my message was GONE! Poof! Dissapeared! I looked for it averywhere and I couldn’t even find it. In my forum account, it says I never even posted a single message. (Even though it was my first one on that forum.)

I think they only want positive testomonials for publicity.

Wierd!

Another thing I hate about them it that when you want to do a bootcamp or attend a conference with their company, there’s a contract you have to agree to that for 4 years, you cannot own or operate a seduction company. WTF?!

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Editor December 23, 2011 at 8:55 pm

Wow. That does not surprise me!

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madelaine May 1, 2012 at 10:57 pm

It seems like these guys really know how to boost peoples’ confidence, and I think that’s great. But as a woman, the language they use and the techniques and the way they measure success is pretty offensive… I wonder if they provide services for straight women, gay men or lesbians .. I asked but was ignored, possibly becauseI’m just a woman, an object for sexualizing or using to boost confidence?? Anyway guys, I truly think none of you need this shit to be happy!!!!

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Alexander Winnig September 28, 2012 at 11:29 am

This will be more in depth than the other reviews. It all started out with me having no success with women. I didn’t have a clue, what exactly my problems with them were. I kept watching rsd’s videos just for me to realize that the main problem I had and have with them is that you cannot use their advice.

I kept myself asking “How do I use that now?”. Contrary to Eckhart Tolle, who gives very practical advice that you actually can use in this very moment when you’re reading his book, what the members of real social dynamics have in common is, that you cannot use what they teach.

It all makes sense what they say but I see a huge gap between what they are doing and what I can do respectively where I am in my progress.

I ask myself: “Using the information I just got from this video, can I go out and apply it?”. I have to deny on a regular basis.

I had many pickup experiences, but I have not found a way to constantly have sex or makeouts.

This is due to my inability to point out the reason why I fail. As the owner of real social dynamics has the gift of analyzing social situations and reverse engineering them, I was watching many of his videos to hopefully find my problem being reverse engineered, but I didn’t. Instead I was reaffirmed that what they teach does not help me.

I just don’t understand what is exactly holding me back. And real social dynamics is very good at giving off the impression that they can help you but in reality they are using good phrases without any practical value.

If you feel the same way and want to talk about it contact me using vernehmlassung_noj@gmail.com – remove the _noj part to make the mail address work.

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Lucky90 October 4, 2012 at 2:41 am

I think RSD is the only “organized help with women” / “self improvement” that does not tend to make people act like weirdos. They don’t teach you pick-up lines or routines. They teach you how to become a more confident person and well, if they (and lots of psychologists too) are right, it’s what matters the most. It can help you to have success with women but it can also help you to be a more assertive, more dominant (not annoyingly dominant, but in a way that shows you know what you want and you know how to get it) and more go-ahead type. I think that if you can’t get women you have issues in your life. That’s simple. You have issues you need to fix. You need to use RSD to improve your overall all. Become a REAL man and success with women will come by itself. I love their system not for getting women but for self-enlightment…Well they help a lot to get women too but you get the point :p

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JKL October 30, 2012 at 6:07 pm

I don’t think that anyone can reach RSD’s level of teaching. Also when compared to your stuff. Which is not the best in the world. The amount of free stuff from RSD is amazing, and any instructor, except maybe the busyer ones like Tyler and Jeffy f.e. answer any e-mail in a week or less. Shure Tyler doesn’t have lots of time, he is leader of a big company, works 12 hours a day and goes out every evening. Still he does his freetour stuff, Bootcamps. And there is absolutely nothing wrong about the way they teach, it’s natural, cool, and mostly self improvement. The instructors can all teach very good, and it’s very easy to reach a deep level of understanding everything. And by the fact, that they have multiple instructors with totally different styles is pretty cool, too (Compare Julien -”Drama, Confusion, Chaos, and then lay her!” vs. Alex “Be cool, have fun, chill, take time and make her ask you for sex” or Brad “How to get a Harem of Girls with NO DRAMA). It’s an all awesome Company, not money based, but based on giving the instructors the possibility to teach anywhere in the world.

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JKL October 30, 2012 at 6:13 pm

@ Alexander Winning: If you only watched the free stuff, shure, you won’t get laid instantly with only having watched it. What they say on the freetour channels is mostly pretty advanced stuff. Tyler f.e. keeps saying, that you have to go out A LOT to improve. Build your Prefrontalcortex. Do meditation. Succes with women could take months, years, just a shitload of time. If they say, how to develop yourself overtime, do that. If you have the inner state for it, go out more. That’s how they teach. No way to mess up. I’m sry, but it’s your fault then. For me, going out on a regular basis (twice a week only) and slowly watching more content kept improving me. For every video i watch, i take 4 nights or sth. to practice. And i see results. If you cannot put effort in it, it’s not RSD’s fault. Peace:)

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Rick Williams November 7, 2012 at 8:26 pm

All of you are lame…why do you need instruction in getting laid? These guys are just douchebags taking advantage of your gullibility. If a girl doesn’t want to fuck you, then fuck off. Don’t try to con chicks into bed, that’s just pathetic.

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