Just to keep it on topic, since we are talking about proof, if someone is selling them knowledge and a skill set on how to do well with women, then I think most men equate that with being able to meet women and if they meet one they are interested in to be able to advance the relationship and advancing the relationship generally means ultimately having sex with that woman. As a result I think that if a potential student would like to know how many women a teacher has slept with then that is not necessarily an inappropriate question to ask. Perhaps it may reduce women in a sense to numbers, but that isn’t dehumanizing or demeaning but just a tool to use in a certain context. If the guru has only slept with ten women and has been involved in this profession for ten years, then I would be very hesitant to spend thousands of dollars to have him teach me. The simple truth is, not every guru out there is legitimate and some of them that are exaggerate their abilities to the point that I personally have to roll my eyes and I would be shocked if what they said was true. However, I think discussing how many women a person has slept with is something that should be done in a one on one conversation and not in an interview on the internet. If someone is interested in signing up for a bootcamp or consultation then they should not be shy of asking that guru that question, but demanding the guru answer it on a blog interview or even a radio interview is inappropriate in my opinion.

I think it depends on the setting. If you stick to David’s advice about meeting people everywhere, it’s way easier to make a wisecrack or ask an open-ended question about what’s in someone’s grocery cart, for instance. Besides which, women are much more open to conversation in their everyday environment.

Finding something to approach a woman about in a bar is more of a challenge because you see a much smaller slice of the woman’s life, it’s harder to find something to talk about that’s unique or specific to her life, and she’s already got her guard up, looking for reasons to filter you out.

Not only that, there are so many more chances to practice conversational approaches to people, including women, in everyday life, without the anxiety-producing, high-stakes investment in the outcome.

If you want to go ahead and do the routine thing in the bar, fine, but it’s foolish to waste the opportunities in your everyday life, and the “system” or whatever you want to call it that David uses is really just common sense advice about how to relate to others (with gender-specific details) as human beings.

If you have doubts about the authenticity or efficacy of his advice, he posts plenty of free material on his website that you can try out and evaluate for yourself. This is better than a money-back guarantee because you have no up-front costs.

Check out the videos on his blog or on You Tube and try the stuff out. What do you have to lose? I don’t agree with everything he says or does, but overall, his advice is good, solid stuff, and if you follow his underlying philosophy, there’s a good chance it will improve more than your dating life.

That’s a numbers game, not the reality. It’s not fucking finance, it’s real people with real dynamics. Let’s not dehumanize it too much. I would say, perhaps an alternative would be asking for how many students are satisfied with what he provided and how many of his students get the results their seeking, with specific examples.

Just because someone could quote those stats, doesn’t mean their good at conveying what’s needed for a specific student. Take Brent for example.

Guys don’t get advice from financial managers without knowing the managers’ return rates, or returns for their other clients… so guys shouldn’t get advice from dating coaches who can’t quote real return rates from dating.

“Any guy can meet any woman because I’ve been coaching women too for 10 years,”

Ok. And how many of those women that the guy meets is the guy able to get physical with later?

… is that considered a routine?

i think its easier to be original & humorous by observing & reacting based on the environment.

I think canned routines are a great way to overcome approach anxiety in the beginning. When you have anxiety you freeze up, your mind goes blank and you don’t know what to say. A canned opener or routine eliminates that problem.

Once you’re over your anxiety of approaching women you become less nervous and can then become more natural. That is what worked for me.

I understand the reasons not to use canned routines or pre-rehearse routines, and I understand that it is best to be as natural in a situation as possible, but don’t you guys use material that you have developed on your own more than once?

Because that is what I mean by everyone using routines. I understand Donovan’s point, and it makes a lot of sense, but maybe it is just where I am at the moment, but there are situations where I do basically the same things repeatedly because I see results, though I improvise as I go along with nothing specifically set or with necessarily the intention of repeating the same material. This may consist of the same openers, transitions, stories, banter, kino, etc, but most of that material I developed on my own, especially stories, I never use any one elses stories, ever, but I still consider them routines. Why reinvent the wheel? Just improve upon it.

you won’t ever really learn to game until you take them off.. but they make learning a lot easier in the beginning.

I dont do pre-rehearsed routines. I tech men how to connect and be more natural with woman.
It is all about becoming a man and not a robot.

I teach men how to react to all situations so they can know what to say and it comes across as natural and real.

I use a base point to show men how to create a natural opener so when teaching a routine i emphasize how to make it natural and in the moment.

Very different than what most people teach in this industry.

Canned routines are a joke……they are a crutch that expose a guy on the actual date.

I can go on and on about this.

I like to think of it this way: if you repeat about 80% of your material every time you pick up, then you’re routine, however if you are ad libing, and using framework that imo is not using a method that uses routine.