It seems these days that Mystery has given up on helping guys and instead is just trying to pocket in on his VH1 The Pickup Artist show. There’s no doubt in my mind that Mystery has, next to Neil Strauss, contributed the most to the community in terms of techniques, tactics, and culture. But what has he been contributing lately?
From my skewed perspective, Mystery seems to be teaching the same old “do you floss” routines over and over. At least his ex-business partner, Savoy, has been evolving his own methodology with the release of Magic Bullets, that includes tonnes more tactics like phone game, texting, relationship management. From what Savoy told me, Eric (Mystery) didn’t even teach or contribute before the breakup for about 1.5 years. Most of the materials that Mystery Method uses today are from Sinn, Savoy, The Don, and a few other instructors.
My big beef with Mystery lately is that after the release of the Mind of Mystery system ($2500), we haven’t heard from him. I was delighted to see the VH1 show do well, and there might be a second season (good), but what did he teach the community from that show?
The community is evolving to the point now that Mystery’s teachings are completely outdated and being replaced with more congruent, natural products that empower men instead of replace their social masks with false identities and hope. Even peacocking, the way Mystery presents it, is debunked.
Mystery is sick of the seduction community. Mystery now uses it as his own personal piggy bank and wants withdrawals a few days after he’s used his last score on blow, food, and maintenance for his harem.
Magic Bullets is the step-by-step guide to seduction. Learn how to attract and seduce beautiful women with this award-winning eBook by pickup artist Savoy of Love Systems. Download it 
{ 45 comments… read them below or add one }
That post was a bit harsh.
I have not as of yet gone through his Mind of Mystery product, so I haven’t the faintest idea if any new material has been introduced, but I think he is contributing quite a bit to the community, free of charge, and that is through motivation and inspiration.
It is like all those guys with pictures of Arnold Schwarzenegger on their walls or home gyms. He may not be competing in Mr. Olympia competitions anymore, but just to know what he has accomplished provides strong motivation for those scrawny or overweight teenagers out there. The same thing can be said about Mystery
Hey man, props for the nudge at mystery. For us old-timers mystery is getting really really recycled.
Donovan, I’ve liked your site for a while, but you’re getting even edgier and even more “core” (as opposed to superficial). Keep going
YSB -> I’m not saying I hate him, far from it, but provide some value now.
I see more inspirational people out there. Eben Pagan (David Deangelo) to me is more of an inspiration than Mystery. Successful business man, everyone who knows him likes him, and branched out into other areas in life. Mystery seems very stagnated to me. I think most people realize that after following him for years. Also: unstable emotionally.
I’m not a “innovation for innovation’s sake” man.
if Mystery hasn’t changed his teachings, but they STILL WORK – I don’t see the problem with that.
yes, he’s gone over the edge and is more about the money now then helping guys anew. His marketting is a little sad, given i’m fond of him – but my take on that is the same as my take on the prices at a restaraunt I can’t afford to eat at: Theres just as good food elesewhere, no biggie.
Disagree with the suggestion that he was a lump at MM. The philosophy there was that he trained up all these guys so that they could teach his stuff (and make money for him and the company) so that Mystery himself didnt’ have to do it day in and day out. They owe him for the start, which would have been mighty hard to get without him.
Savoy hasn’t been teaching much for 1.5 years either, and most of the ‘new’ MM stuff is just old MM stuff with a thin twist. Thats not innovation, if RSD had done it they’d be up in arms crying “copycats”.
David D. isn’t exactly a non-commercial guy either.
Donovan, I agree with you mostly, particularly regarding Mystery’s changing motives, but i think your anger here is a little misplaced. You don’t expect him to come out with a product every month, do you?
No idea what the DVD product is about – frankly, i think its more ethical to have a high priced product that gives you a guys everything then the “next, better product” syndrome that many companies deal in.
cheers,
Sting
lol…have u read Magic Bullets?tell me smt original from that book…i look thru the book..same old stuff..from td,mystery,etc
and about mystery you re kinda right..it s time to bring smt new.
cheers.
it is better not to hear from mystery.
did his methods REALLY help you? did you ACTUALLY G-E-T G-I-R-L-S to BED for SEX or for a long term RELATIONSHIP with his methods?
probably all you did was jerk around in the club thinking that you’re a superstar, getting some giggles and useless phone numbers. that’s what the mystery method is REALLY all about.
hopefully he’ll fade out and let people who have more TRUE value to offer take the stage.
ps i am not frustrated/full of hate/negative. since i’m doing more than fine with women. you know why?because i don’t listen to mystery. whatever hero you choose for yourself – you’ll have to live with the results.
BTW, like most of us i try not to be a negative guy, but tried it on for this post. =) i especially wanted to get a discussion going on this topic that lots of guys have brought up recently…
DC, i’ve mentioned what i thought was original in Magic Bullets in the post.
Good points brought up.
However the Mystery Method isn’t merely a string of ‘is kissing cheating’ openers and routines. Mystery’s primary contribution is providing highly structured approach to the Game. Essentially, a roadmap through the previously unmapped territories of attraction and seduction.
You can merely suggest superficial techniques to improve results, but the underlying game structure remains the same. Can’t improve much on that…
I’d say Savoy’s Magic Bullets adds value by shifting the focus away from the glitzy opener phase (A1 in Mystery’s VAH) and emphasing more on the qualification phase (A3) which really does improve your results.
But do yourself a favour and get a good inner game guide. Good inner game allows you to intuit the seduction process without having to consiously consult the Mystery’s roadmap which is slower and more unnatural. Think of it like developing a good sense of direction so you don’t have to constantly consult a map to drive to the local store.
my bad Donovan..i thought the link was an aff. not a link to review and didn t bother to click it.(probably u re right but personally i can t read a book when from the beginning i read the same stuff mystery wrote,td devil/angel routine,etc and many more).
have u ve got the chance to see Mind of Mystery system?any good?or the same stunt marketing as A.Method of neil strauss?
cheers
Not sure mate. I haven’t seen the product. Has any one have a review of Mind of Mystery they’d like to share?
Maybe he is dated maybe he’s not. What I dislike are people riding on Mystery’s fame. What I don’t like is getting emails from his “friends/associates” trying to sell me stuff, “Visit my marketing site, Hey I’m friends with Mystery buy my stuff, help me help you get rich, etc.” They’re changing the point of the community aren’t they?
I think they are To.
> They’re changing the point of the community aren’t they?
every cult throughout history has leaders trying to achieve personal gains on the expense of their followers, which they recruit by exploiting their personal weaknesses.
the ‘community’ is no different.
just go right here:
http://www.mindofmystery.com/
and listen to mystery say: life is sometimes very tough, right. let’s get together and build a social circle [=cult] and life will be so much better if you just take the first step [=pay me $2500 for the dvd]
there you go.
and as in any cult, many of you will now DEFEND mystery for his actions.
history repeats itself, just on a larger scale, due to the internet.
If people want to pay mystery for stuff, why not? It is their money.
And why blame Mystery. He is getting money for doing nothing if I believe what is in the text.
You can criticize him, but your filling your actual moment with emotions that won’t change the situation that you criticize.
If you want to change the situation, come with something of your own or say nothing instead and do other things that are worth your time.
And you cannot say that mystery is a freerider because he is only taking advantage of his OWN creation.
Mystery’s stuff is only outdated to those who have been in the community for awhile. If you just stumbled upon this or any of the countless seduction related sites… you’d probably think Mystery was a genius.
As for Savoy. Personally i think he is a piece of shit for a business partner.. but that is just my personal experience with him.
Just a question:
You seem to have no problem with Strauss.. What is the difference between the two of them?
I don’t think mystery is outdated, I’m still following his method and i’m still getting a lot of success with women. I might be wrong but I think his method will still inspire a lot of us for a very long time.
Cheers,
Moonlight
I agree with the Arnold Schwarzenegger comparison. Mystery did his innovations, set up a lot of the foundation, and a lot of what he taught still works. Even if he never teaches anything new again ever, so what? It doesn’t invalidate what he has done and it doesn’t negate that his old methods still work.
Bobby, I agree. I’m talking from my perspective. I’m not seeing anything innovative. Strauss, also… BUT he is doing stuff for the community. Rules of the Game, Stylelife Academy, interviews, and emails. I think their is a big difference between them.
Guys, don’t misinterpret my post as me HATING Mystery. I don’t, I do have respect for what he’s accomplished. I’m just greedy and want more! =)
This is a good discussion!
When thinking about Mystery, keep in mind that television content is not aimed at consumers, but at advertisers. The point of a TV show is to grab people’s attention in such a way as to make them most susceptible to commercials.
So Mystery comes across as cheesy and gimmicky to community veterans, but that is the only way to format PUA content for American television. The content as to put you “into a state” where you are most susceptible to 30 commercials trying to sell you something. This is why pickup will never truly hit the mainstream because commercial media has to come from the frame that “you are what you buy”, or else the advertisers won’t advertise.
i get right now my hands on Mind of Mystery..i just looked very very brieftly..first of all the quality of the picture(?)it s not so good..like an old movie from the 80′.
i was very excited to see that was live footage in field..but..it wasn t like the vh1 show hidden cameras..the girl/ppl were aware of the cameras(girls passing by waving at the camera)
anyway the good thing is that u are able to see,hear the material,how they run it on girls,etc instead to read it from the book.
i’ll be back when i gonna go thru from the beginning to the end.
> If people want to pay mystery for stuff, why
> not? It is their money
ideally the concept of this community was guys helping each other, and the better ones helping the ones that don’t do so well.
now, the better ones just squeeze as much money as possible from the gullible ones, and the less gullible ones just say “i don’t give a shit that this is happening”, as quoted above.
what a great community. wonderful people.
There is a lot of truth in that Jim. I don’t mind paying for stuff that works, and I only recommend the stuff that I’ve used and found that it’s worked. SOOOOOOO many emails every month with “new” promotions that “gurus” tell me is my obligation to promote to guys. Eh.
Mystery uses cocaine? I would have never thought he’d be into that…
Why would those things make you have a beef with him? So, he’s out for awhile or whatever. So?
Quit naggin so much like LITTLE girls. He made his work and other people are leading the way to new ideas in an enviroment that grows too fast… he participated and helps whenever he wants (not when he just can). For me, this article is just all about jealousy and most of the traits we see in girls LoL
man take it off from this website please.. its embarrassing
I’m curious if any of you actually read or watched any of his material that he provided to the community. I’m curious about this because in his material he gives you ideas of for openers negs and routines and tells you to go try them out to get a feel for what he is teaching. Then he suggests that you go create your own image and your own material that is unique to you. This is the underlining point of his material.
David D is a respected member of the community and in his Mastery seminar he suggest that you imitate the best until you get constant results and learn how to make finer and finer distinctions until you can clearly see why each approach works and then create your own variations. After you have achieved clarity you innovate. You come up with your own ideas.
The teacher can only open the door. It is the student responsibility to walk through it. Mystery gives you a complete structure on how to get from point a to point b and it is on you to come up with your own material. Mystery isn’t selling you canned material to go pick up chicks with. He is selling you a tested and proven formula for success.
I suggest you give some thought to what he does with his own life is his own business. I suggest that you stop being so critical of his life and go live your own life.
Some of you have placed some serious judgments on him and it is immature. Stop it. Take what you can use from what he has provided and disregard the rest and stop expressing your judgmental views of him. All your doing is expressing immaturity in your selves.
Hey, Mystery gets the credit for being among the first to show that there is an art to seduction–although he has to share a lot of that credit with Neil Strauss, as “The Game” was what made him an icon. However, being the first is only good for historical purposes. Like, would you buy an airplane from the Wright Brothers?
The real issue is whether it is worth paying big bucks for his latest offering, or whether we should be looking at newer stuff. Like, for $10 on Amazon, you can get a book on how to hook up with hot women written by a Playboy Playmate and Penthouse Pet of the Year with a Ph.D. in psychology. I’ve read it, and she really disses Mystery, David D and all the “neggers,” insisting that no really good looking woman would fall for such a schtick. Instead of “peacocking,” she preaches dressing in the style of the kind of woman you are looking for. Plus, she shows how to use psychology in your initial conversation to really hook a woman. It’s a totally different “game” that Dr. Z describes in “Dr. Z on Scoring,” but, man, if it can land a chick like Dr. Z or her Playmate friends, I’m all for it. I tried it out at a local nail salon–where Dr. Z says hot women all hang out–and got the number of a really cute Asian honey on my first try, so I’m a believer.
Ok, Guys who have been around for a while… or those who have not.
Go read Mystery’s first few posts on ASF(NOW MASF) and you will see, mystery got into the community with all smoke and mirrors. Nothing but qualifying to the group and trying to ‘Impress’. I doubt all he claimed to be is true.
When you watch him now on video, and listen to him in AUDIO…. you still get that slight HINT of insecurity… i guess that’s why he was never as successful as his students.
Also if you read the posts, you will notice a whole lot of his method was actually developed in conjunction with other people in the community. (Qualification part is an example that comes to mind)
Also listen to the Mystery Method Audio series, the one with him on there… he sounds totally incongruent when relating the story of how he came up with ‘NEG’ theory.
Wake up people…. most of the ‘GURU’s out there are “sarging” but they just doing it to you guys…. to get the $$$
it’s big business now… it pays for nice mansions and fancy cars…
Props to you for calling them out on it.
One of the pioneers of the community, gave loads of value…and still not enough? Give him a break, let him do his own thing. No need to judge what he is doing. He has done a lot already, let him relax.
this is bullshit….u all are a bunch of ungrateful bastards!
I love Mystery, I love Neil, I loved Mystery Method…
But Donovan is right…
also
Natural Game is the way… It is cool to be on Mystery Method routines for the first few months in the game, but you must find out (as I have) that mastering MM isnt what the game is about…
Jeez, just bumped on this post by accident. Are you guys really dissing Mistery? I understand the need for a healthy debate, but criticizing him is not going to create a healthy debate, and the taste of the article does not fit the mold of “Do you guys feel this, or …”. It is too far on the left field to provoke an objective debate.
Paul said it the best above. I will also add that most of us, critics, started studying the PU Art with him: you have to start somewhere, and that somewhere is Mistery for most of us, so why turn around and degrade his contributions? After research and tries, some of us might be better, but this post has a bitter and ungrateful taste in it, Mr. Donovan.
In regard to the updates, I knew this Biology instructor who was once criticized by his graduate students because he taught from his writings, that he never changed. When asked about it, he simply stated “The human body is not changing. Why should my writings about it?”. In a nutshell, if Mistery can do wonders with his Method, why change it? In addition, why should he update the subject if from his perspective, it’s all being said and done? Would that actually not be pointless rehearshing? Don’t we see so often the same things, said differently all around (be confident, imitate first, then do your own style, do not fear rejection, etc)?
I will stick to my curious self and read on to some more inspiring article, I totally think this post was extreme. Just enjoy the PUA stuff, learn, share, and grow. No need for so much negativity. Ages after his first appearance, Mistery has to be one of the best well-known PUA, and several students’ introduction to the game, and to respect that fact shows much more class.
I mean to type “Mystery”, not “Mistery”
I discovered all the PUA community material a year ago and I’m familiar with the Annihilation and Mystery Methods as well as Magic Bullets and yes, a lot of it seems to be very redundant. However, wouldn’t that point to the fact that there is a clear pattern to follow? Like those flies and bees you studied in Bio, we also have an intricate set of steps to follow. I really don’t understand the necessity for a game changing innovation when as most of the gurus will point out, this stuff works because its embedded in human psychology.
I do find a a major disparity between Style and Mystery. Style works a lot on inner game- self improvement and lifestyle re-evaluation. Mystery, though, is concerned with “human machines” and systems; he’s still stuck playing D&D like the good ole days before pick-up. A singular focus on “survival and replication” and a linear flow chart to emotional happiness is at best a bleak outlook on life. Mystery undoubtedly set a strong foundation for the community with the Mystery Method, though simply following it leads to ADD club girls and hollow satisfaction. Style’s comprehensive methods “being the best you”, LAS VEGAS, etc. holistically approach the whole person. It is essentially finding happiness from within rather than from club conquests.
The differences in their teachings are telling. One soul searches for becoming an asset to the community, the “tribe”, the other hunts game.
I do feel really bad for all of you. You seem so insecure. Please don’t resort to this “Mystery” business. You don’t need $2500 worth of ridiculous DVDs. I don’t see how any of you could even get casual sex, let alone a worthwhile relationship, using this method.
The other night at a party, I busted some guy who was obviously trying to use “the game.” It’s been all over the women’s blogs, we know about it, and it just seems pathetic. If you are scheming and gross about picking up women, you will only get caught by those who know better (either because they know about The Game already, or they just have a healthy self-esteem and won’t respond well to gimmicks or “negs”). If it works on a woman, it’s a sure sign that she’s either a) drunk beyond the point of meaningful consent, b) has a low self-esteem and is easily manipulated because she just wants attention, or c) stupid. All 3 have serious drama queen potential. And on your end – it’s just disrespectful and gross. Why do you want that?
The vocabulary is just embarrassing. “Annihliation,” “Mystery Method,” “Magic Bullets”? Yikes. So dorky.
i think that everyone should be out in the field approaching women…
try it they are friendly…
you d’ont to need to know every tactic in books to approach…
the best advice is approach, approach, approach even if you have no clue what you are doing
The principles of Mystery Method still work of course. Some of the routines are silly and have been silly from the very beginning, just identify and skip those.
I’ve noticed RSD has some silly routines too. But if you understand the psychology behind the GOOD routines you can not only make your own.. Ones that are more congruent with YOU and your personality, but create the lifestyle and situations that demonstrate the REAL value the routines are meant to communicate.
Mystery’s peacocking has always been kinda weird, which is why I never did it anyway. It didn’t play out.. It was just always weird.
But overall, the concepts laid out in Mystery Method are still valid and very helpful.
All facts about female psychology and social dynamics are and will remain valid no matter who says the or puts them in their own words. They’re timeless and rarely new discoveries… There are simply new ways of applying old principles through various and changing outward circumstances.
David Gideon
old provocative stuff ^_^
Mystery is one of my favourites, I like his style and couldn’t tell anything about him… he made his way through the community and made his work a business… I ‘d not call that “doing nothing new”… It’s all a point of view and the author of this old post is way too harh in any way.
See the comment of Real Woman instead.
In your head:
Either women remain bitchy, no matter how u FIGHT AND CHALLENGE yourself to become a better You (’cause every woman on this planet can’t stand men who want to grew… if you use MM you’r all the same)
or
You totally give the finger to any stupid bunch of stupid ppl.
We are fukin’ talking about PRODUCTS : they work? fine.
They don’t work? better try something else.
Untill users like Real Woman(be a male or female I don’t care) exist… you better keep your mouth shout and talk about YOUR experience…
criticism is all over the world… this has been a delightful break from my work but it’s all a bunch of BS and stupid ppl screamin’2each other
Greetings to all the good ppl who still is on his way of learning the Game ^_^
Mystery method still works, of course. It works too good and that’s why guys with no imagination are repeating his lines word for word until they can’t be used anymore in certain areas (esp. where they do lots of workshops)!
However, if you understand the psychology behind the words of MM you can create your own stuff with the same effects. So yes, the principles still work.
And if guys are having no luck with women and pay $$$ to get it handled GOOD! An investment of money actually forces you to VALUE the information.
Actually, I would suggest that people invest $$$ in those areas they really want to get handled. Why? Because when you get information for free chances are that you won’t value it enough to take ACTION.. which is the master key to any type of success.
Only an idiot would pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a product and then not follow the directions to make the product work i.e. going out and practicing/talking to real girls. Nobody wants to waste their hard-earned money like that.
David Gideon
You guys write an article about mystery? how pathetic. Maybe you guys should write an article about a whole bunch of loser teachers go around the web in ads trying to get people to buy their products saying they can help them get girlfriends.
Mystery started the whole thing anyways, even if his techniques do not work anymore, don’t criticize him. If it weren’t for him you probably wouldn’t have met Tyler, Neil e.t.c or other good pickup artists that learned the original materials from him.
@ Real Woman™, here’s a quote from Neil Strauss’s mailing list which I think you should take to heart:
Every now and then, a woman sends me an email or comes up to me at
a signing and says, “This guy tried to use the game on me the other
night, and I totally called him out on it.”
She usually seems very pleased with herself when she says this, and
wants some sort of compliment or pat on the head.
However, all I can think when this happens is: “You don’t get it!”
If you’ve read the book, then you understand that 90 percent of
guys using the game are focused on self-improvement and learning to
interact better with women – and the world.
When you shoot a guy down for using the game, especially if he’s
someone just beginning this journey to become socially comfortable,
all you’re doing is retarding his progress and development. And, in
some cases, possibly discouraging him from every trying again.
Instead, if you’ve read The Game, and a PUA-in-training comes up to
you using the material, instead of calling him out, HELP him out.
And do it constructively, not condescendingly. Especially if he is
doing something wrong or you see something you can give him advice
with. I’m sure everyone on this list would appreciate helpful,
constructive advice that will improve their success on a permanent
basis. If you’re feeling really generous, be a great wingwoman to
him that night. And if you’re feeling really, really generous…um,
never mind.
- Rob
To every guy trying to get better with women(every PUA in training), you are not yet “GOOD” because of your approach towards it.
The ‘idea’ as many instructurs teach it is that you use routines, and false SUBcommunications to get women into bed.
The problem with this approach is that; not only are you pretending to be the kind of guy women pick by decieving her value judging circuts(which robs her of the opportunity to make the RIGHT decision about you), it also takes so much time to get good(min. 1 year– bearing in mind that most guys never get good), as you will have to go through the dreaded PAIN PERIOD.
A better approach would be to take steps to better your life first. Focus on creating a fun interesting life, be social with everyone, be a source of positive emotions, have that likeAbility factor and learn how to like others without wanting to take anything from them.
Basically, learn the social skills you didnt develop in high school for whatever reason and you wont feel like you are CHEATING a woman out of anything because you will be the guy she wants, and you will add value to her life.
Once you have done this, you will be able to get at lease some girls in your life.
It is at this point that you can begin to alter yourself using seduction techniques (as guidelines) to give you power and choice with women.
Remember: The pickup arts dont define our lives, they only enrich it; and women are only PART of our lives.
The point of all this is that you are just supposed add the seduction skill to your life, and move on to better things (or stay and help others do it). Being in the game for X amount of years purchasing ‘products’ and criticising instructurs is not a way to live. Get Good, and get gone however long it takes.
The only difference between an AFC and a PUA is that a PUA has 1000 or so more approaches than the AFC… DJ FUJI.
so if the instructo can take you through these 1000 approaches sucessfully, then he has done his job.
PS. for all of you hating on Mystery, i hope you know this means you are being EMOTIONALLY AFFECTED by him. So, you might just want what he has…
And if you don like Mystery and his method (or whatever company), why not start your own company and do it better.
I’d like to add my two cents here. If you confine yourself to one method or mindset of meeting and dating women, you are accepting it’s limitations whether you realize it or not and whether you like it or not. A method, is nothing more and nothing less than a collection of best practices: of techniques.
Me personally, I prefer principles over techniques any day. There are 5 of these principles: social skills, body language, inner game, outer game, and lifestyle.Why do I prefer these principles? If you learn the principles of attraction, then you can invent your own techniques on the spot.
That’s why it possible for so many methods, collections of techniques (Neil Strauss’s, Mystery’s, Love System’s, Eben Pagan’s, etc.) to exist and all be effective in their own unique way. These guys each took the principles of attraction in a direction they liked.
Therefore, the whole discussion about who’s better than who is comparing apples to oranges: everyone’s good, but in their own way. Having said that, all there is left for me to say is I don’t want a Dennis method to exist. I want to teach the principles so I can one day look up and see dozens of styles that I helped create, to see people who don’t wear a Dennis or Eben or Mystery mask, but NO mask because they took the direction with the principles that was best for them. The principles allow men to be themselves, to keep having fun no matter how many women they’ve met, and to PREVENT boredom because any routine no matter how good, is a routine that will get boring after enough repetition.
To more dating success,
Dennis Miedema
Agree with Yummy Stale Bread. A bit of a harsh post at the time.
“The community is evolving to the point now that Mystery’s teachings are completely outdated and being replaced with more congruent, natural products that empower men instead of replace their social masks with false identities and hope.”
Saying Mystery’s teachings are outdated is like saying that the world doesn’t work the same anymore. His approach works, and until the social dynamics of the world stop that – it will remain current and relevant.
As you point out there are some interesting natural and inner game products that came out. Mystery’s publication “Revelation” integrated some of the good aspect of that movement and did it pretty well.