The Magic Show’s Over! When Is Mystery Going To Evolve?
It seems these days that Mystery has given up on helping guys and instead is just trying to pocket in on his VH1 The Pickup Artist show. There’s no doubt in my mind that Mystery has, next to Neil Strauss, contributed the most to the community in terms of techniques, tactics, and culture. But what has he been contributing lately?
From my skewed perspective, Mystery seems to be teaching the same old “do you floss” routines over and over. At least his ex-business partner, Savoy, has been evolving his own methodology with the release of Magic Bullets, that includes tonnes more tactics like phone game, texting, relationship management. From what Savoy told me, Eric (Mystery) didn’t even teach or contribute before the breakup for about 1.5 years. Most of the materials that Mystery Method uses today are from Sinn, Savoy, The Don, and a few other instructors.
My big beef with Mystery lately is that after the release of the Mind of Mystery system ($2500), we haven’t heard from him. I was delighted to see the VH1 show do well, and there might be a second season (good), but what did he teach the community from that show?
The community is evolving to the point now that Mystery’s teachings are completely outdated and being replaced with more congruent, natural products that empower men instead of replace their social masks with false identities and hope. Even peacocking, the way Mystery presents it, is debunked.
Mystery is sick of the seduction community. Mystery now uses it as his own personal piggy bank and wants withdrawals a few days after he’s used his last score on blow, food, and maintenance for his harem.
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Comment by Yummy Stale Bread on 4 January 2008:
That post was a bit harsh.
I have not as of yet gone through his Mind of Mystery product, so I haven’t the faintest idea if any new material has been introduced, but I think he is contributing quite a bit to the community, free of charge, and that is through motivation and inspiration.
It is like all those guys with pictures of Arnold Schwarzenegger on their walls or home gyms. He may not be competing in Mr. Olympia competitions anymore, but just to know what he has accomplished provides strong motivation for those scrawny or overweight teenagers out there. The same thing can be said about Mystery
Comment by Nirvanos on 4 January 2008:
Hey man, props for the nudge at mystery. For us old-timers mystery is getting really really recycled.
Donovan, I’ve liked your site for a while, but you’re getting even edgier and even more “core” (as opposed to superficial). Keep going
Comment by Donovan on 4 January 2008:
YSB -> I’m not saying I hate him, far from it, but provide some value now.
I see more inspirational people out there. Eben Pagan (David Deangelo) to me is more of an inspiration than Mystery. Successful business man, everyone who knows him likes him, and branched out into other areas in life. Mystery seems very stagnated to me. I think most people realize that after following him for years. Also: unstable emotionally.
Comment by sting on 5 January 2008:
I’m not a “innovation for innovation’s sake” man.
if Mystery hasn’t changed his teachings, but they STILL WORK - I don’t see the problem with that.
yes, he’s gone over the edge and is more about the money now then helping guys anew. His marketting is a little sad, given i’m fond of him - but my take on that is the same as my take on the prices at a restaraunt I can’t afford to eat at: Theres just as good food elesewhere, no biggie.
Disagree with the suggestion that he was a lump at MM. The philosophy there was that he trained up all these guys so that they could teach his stuff (and make money for him and the company) so that Mystery himself didnt’ have to do it day in and day out. They owe him for the start, which would have been mighty hard to get without him.
Savoy hasn’t been teaching much for 1.5 years either, and most of the ‘new’ MM stuff is just old MM stuff with a thin twist. Thats not innovation, if RSD had done it they’d be up in arms crying “copycats”.
David D. isn’t exactly a non-commercial guy either.
Donovan, I agree with you mostly, particularly regarding Mystery’s changing motives, but i think your anger here is a little misplaced. You don’t expect him to come out with a product every month, do you?
No idea what the DVD product is about - frankly, i think its more ethical to have a high priced product that gives you a guys everything then the “next, better product” syndrome that many companies deal in.
cheers,
Sting
Comment by dc on 5 January 2008:
lol…have u read Magic Bullets?tell me smt original from that book…i look thru the book..same old stuff..from td,mystery,etc
and about mystery you re kinda right..it s time to bring smt new.
cheers.
Comment by jim on 5 January 2008:
it is better not to hear from mystery.
did his methods REALLY help you? did you ACTUALLY G-E-T G-I-R-L-S to BED for SEX or for a long term RELATIONSHIP with his methods?
probably all you did was jerk around in the club thinking that you’re a superstar, getting some giggles and useless phone numbers. that’s what the mystery method is REALLY all about.
hopefully he’ll fade out and let people who have more TRUE value to offer take the stage.
ps i am not frustrated/full of hate/negative. since i’m doing more than fine with women. you know why?because i don’t listen to mystery. whatever hero you choose for yourself - you’ll have to live with the results.
Comment by Donovan on 5 January 2008:
BTW, like most of us i try not to be a negative guy, but tried it on for this post. =) i especially wanted to get a discussion going on this topic that lots of guys have brought up recently…
Comment by Donovan on 5 January 2008:
DC, i’ve mentioned what i thought was original in Magic Bullets in the post.
Comment by PUA ChuKang on 5 January 2008:
Good points brought up.
However the Mystery Method isn’t merely a string of ‘is kissing cheating’ openers and routines. Mystery’s primary contribution is providing highly structured approach to the Game. Essentially, a roadmap through the previously unmapped territories of attraction and seduction.
You can merely suggest superficial techniques to improve results, but the underlying game structure remains the same. Can’t improve much on that…
I’d say Savoy’s Magic Bullets adds value by shifting the focus away from the glitzy opener phase (A1 in Mystery’s VAH) and emphasing more on the qualification phase (A3) which really does improve your results.
But do yourself a favour and get a good inner game guide. Good inner game allows you to intuit the seduction process without having to consiously consult the Mystery’s roadmap which is slower and more unnatural. Think of it like developing a good sense of direction so you don’t have to constantly consult a map to drive to the local store.
Comment by dc on 5 January 2008:
my bad Donovan..i thought the link was an aff. not a link to review and didn t bother to click it.(probably u re right but personally i can t read a book when from the beginning i read the same stuff mystery wrote,td devil/angel routine,etc and many more).
have u ve got the chance to see Mind of Mystery system?any good?or the same stunt marketing as A.Method of neil strauss?
cheers
Comment by Donovan on 5 January 2008:
Not sure mate. I haven’t seen the product. Has any one have a review of Mind of Mystery they’d like to share?
Comment by to on 5 January 2008:
Maybe he is dated maybe he’s not. What I dislike are people riding on Mystery’s fame. What I don’t like is getting emails from his “friends/associates” trying to sell me stuff, “Visit my marketing site, Hey I’m friends with Mystery buy my stuff, help me help you get rich, etc.” They’re changing the point of the community aren’t they?
Comment by donovan on 5 January 2008:
I think they are To.
Comment by jim on 5 January 2008:
> They’re changing the point of the community aren’t they?
every cult throughout history has leaders trying to achieve personal gains on the expense of their followers, which they recruit by exploiting their personal weaknesses.
the ‘community’ is no different.
just go right here:
http://www.mindofmystery.com/
and listen to mystery say: life is sometimes very tough, right. let’s get together and build a social circle [=cult] and life will be so much better if you just take the first step [=pay me $2500 for the dvd]
there you go.
and as in any cult, many of you will now DEFEND mystery for his actions.
history repeats itself, just on a larger scale, due to the internet.
Comment by Godspeed on 6 January 2008:
If people want to pay mystery for stuff, why not? It is their money.
And why blame Mystery. He is getting money for doing nothing if I believe what is in the text.
You can criticize him, but your filling your actual moment with emotions that won’t change the situation that you criticize.
If you want to change the situation, come with something of your own or say nothing instead and do other things that are worth your time.
And you cannot say that mystery is a freerider because he is only taking advantage of his OWN creation.
Comment by Bobby Rio on 6 January 2008:
Mystery’s stuff is only outdated to those who have been in the community for awhile. If you just stumbled upon this or any of the countless seduction related sites… you’d probably think Mystery was a genius.
As for Savoy. Personally i think he is a piece of shit for a business partner.. but that is just my personal experience with him.
Just a question:
You seem to have no problem with Strauss.. What is the difference between the two of them?
Comment by Moonlight on 6 January 2008:
I don’t think mystery is outdated, I’m still following his method and i’m still getting a lot of success with women. I might be wrong but I think his method will still inspire a lot of us for a very long time.
Cheers,
Moonlight
Comment by T on 6 January 2008:
I agree with the Arnold Schwarzenegger comparison. Mystery did his innovations, set up a lot of the foundation, and a lot of what he taught still works. Even if he never teaches anything new again ever, so what? It doesn’t invalidate what he has done and it doesn’t negate that his old methods still work.
Comment by Donovan on 6 January 2008:
Bobby, I agree. I’m talking from my perspective. I’m not seeing anything innovative. Strauss, also… BUT he is doing stuff for the community. Rules of the Game, Stylelife Academy, interviews, and emails. I think their is a big difference between them.
Guys, don’t misinterpret my post as me HATING Mystery. I don’t, I do have respect for what he’s accomplished. I’m just greedy and want more! =)
This is a good discussion!
Comment by Tight Game on 7 January 2008:
When thinking about Mystery, keep in mind that television content is not aimed at consumers, but at advertisers. The point of a TV show is to grab people’s attention in such a way as to make them most susceptible to commercials.
So Mystery comes across as cheesy and gimmicky to community veterans, but that is the only way to format PUA content for American television. The content as to put you “into a state” where you are most susceptible to 30 commercials trying to sell you something. This is why pickup will never truly hit the mainstream because commercial media has to come from the frame that “you are what you buy”, or else the advertisers won’t advertise.
Comment by dc on 7 January 2008:
i get right now my hands on Mind of Mystery..i just looked very very brieftly..first of all the quality of the picture(?)it s not so good..like an old movie from the 80′.
i was very excited to see that was live footage in field..but..it wasn t like the vh1 show hidden cameras..the girl/ppl were aware of the cameras(girls passing by waving at the camera)
anyway the good thing is that u are able to see,hear the material,how they run it on girls,etc instead to read it from the book.
i’ll be back when i gonna go thru from the beginning to the end.
Comment by jim on 7 January 2008:
> If people want to pay mystery for stuff, why
> not? It is their money
ideally the concept of this community was guys helping each other, and the better ones helping the ones that don’t do so well.
now, the better ones just squeeze as much money as possible from the gullible ones, and the less gullible ones just say “i don’t give a shit that this is happening”, as quoted above.
what a great community. wonderful people.
Comment by donovan on 8 January 2008:
There is a lot of truth in that Jim. I don’t mind paying for stuff that works, and I only recommend the stuff that I’ve used and found that it’s worked. SOOOOOOO many emails every month with “new” promotions that “gurus” tell me is my obligation to promote to guys. Eh.
Comment by Feerless on 15 January 2008:
Mystery uses cocaine? I would have never thought he’d be into that…
Pingback by What’s It Gonna Take Slacker? You’re PATHETIC! on 12 February 2008:
[...] some great comments on the blog lately… mostly when I produce such posts like this, and this. I’m interested in what you most like to discuss. It’s pretty obvious to me that those [...]
Comment by A on 12 February 2008:
Why would those things make you have a beef with him? So, he’s out for awhile or whatever. So?
Comment by Petermike on 16 February 2008:
Quit naggin so much like LITTLE girls. He made his work and other people are leading the way to new ideas in an enviroment that grows too fast… he participated and helps whenever he wants (not when he just can). For me, this article is just all about jealousy and most of the traits we see in girls LoL
man take it off from this website please.. its embarrassing
Comment by Paul on 19 February 2008:
I’m curious if any of you actually read or watched any of his material that he provided to the community. I’m curious about this because in his material he gives you ideas of for openers negs and routines and tells you to go try them out to get a feel for what he is teaching. Then he suggests that you go create your own image and your own material that is unique to you. This is the underlining point of his material.
David D is a respected member of the community and in his Mastery seminar he suggest that you imitate the best until you get constant results and learn how to make finer and finer distinctions until you can clearly see why each approach works and then create your own variations. After you have achieved clarity you innovate. You come up with your own ideas.
The teacher can only open the door. It is the student responsibility to walk through it. Mystery gives you a complete structure on how to get from point a to point b and it is on you to come up with your own material. Mystery isn’t selling you canned material to go pick up chicks with. He is selling you a tested and proven formula for success.
I suggest you give some thought to what he does with his own life is his own business. I suggest that you stop being so critical of his life and go live your own life.
Some of you have placed some serious judgments on him and it is immature. Stop it. Take what you can use from what he has provided and disregard the rest and stop expressing your judgmental views of him. All your doing is expressing immaturity in your selves.
Comment by Martin F on 25 February 2008:
Hey, Mystery gets the credit for being among the first to show that there is an art to seduction–although he has to share a lot of that credit with Neil Strauss, as “The Game” was what made him an icon. However, being the first is only good for historical purposes. Like, would you buy an airplane from the Wright Brothers?
The real issue is whether it is worth paying big bucks for his latest offering, or whether we should be looking at newer stuff. Like, for $10 on Amazon, you can get a book on how to hook up with hot women written by a Playboy Playmate and Penthouse Pet of the Year with a Ph.D. in psychology. I’ve read it, and she really disses Mystery, David D and all the “neggers,” insisting that no really good looking woman would fall for such a schtick. Instead of “peacocking,” she preaches dressing in the style of the kind of woman you are looking for. Plus, she shows how to use psychology in your initial conversation to really hook a woman. It’s a totally different “game” that Dr. Z describes in “Dr. Z on Scoring,” but, man, if it can land a chick like Dr. Z or her Playmate friends, I’m all for it. I tried it out at a local nail salon–where Dr. Z says hot women all hang out–and got the number of a really cute Asian honey on my first try, so I’m a believer.
Comment by Anonymous on 26 February 2008:
Ok, Guys who have been around for a while… or those who have not.
Go read Mystery’s first few posts on ASF(NOW MASF) and you will see, mystery got into the community with all smoke and mirrors. Nothing but qualifying to the group and trying to ‘Impress’. I doubt all he claimed to be is true.
When you watch him now on video, and listen to him in AUDIO…. you still get that slight HINT of insecurity… i guess that’s why he was never as successful as his students.
Also if you read the posts, you will notice a whole lot of his method was actually developed in conjunction with other people in the community. (Qualification part is an example that comes to mind)
Also listen to the Mystery Method Audio series, the one with him on there… he sounds totally incongruent when relating the story of how he came up with ‘NEG’ theory.
Wake up people…. most of the ‘GURU’s out there are “sarging” but they just doing it to you guys…. to get the $$$
it’s big business now… it pays for nice mansions and fancy cars…
Props to you for calling them out on it.
Comment by observation on 27 March 2008:
One of the pioneers of the community, gave loads of value…and still not enough? Give him a break, let him do his own thing. No need to judge what he is doing. He has done a lot already, let him relax.
Comment by Luis on 17 April 2008:
this is bullshit….u all are a bunch of ungrateful bastards!
Comment by Thread on 22 June 2008:
I love Mystery, I love Neil, I loved Mystery Method…
But Donovan is right…
also
Natural Game is the way… It is cool to be on Mystery Method routines for the first few months in the game, but you must find out (as I have) that mastering MM isnt what the game is about…
Comment by ItalianJob on 7 July 2008:
Jeez, just bumped on this post by accident. Are you guys really dissing Mistery? I understand the need for a healthy debate, but criticizing him is not going to create a healthy debate, and the taste of the article does not fit the mold of “Do you guys feel this, or …”. It is too far on the left field to provoke an objective debate.
Paul said it the best above. I will also add that most of us, critics, started studying the PU Art with him: you have to start somewhere, and that somewhere is Mistery for most of us, so why turn around and degrade his contributions? After research and tries, some of us might be better, but this post has a bitter and ungrateful taste in it, Mr. Donovan.
In regard to the updates, I knew this Biology instructor who was once criticized by his graduate students because he taught from his writings, that he never changed. When asked about it, he simply stated “The human body is not changing. Why should my writings about it?”. In a nutshell, if Mistery can do wonders with his Method, why change it? In addition, why should he update the subject if from his perspective, it’s all being said and done? Would that actually not be pointless rehearshing? Don’t we see so often the same things, said differently all around (be confident, imitate first, then do your own style, do not fear rejection, etc)?
I will stick to my curious self and read on to some more inspiring article, I totally think this post was extreme. Just enjoy the PUA stuff, learn, share, and grow. No need for so much negativity. Ages after his first appearance, Mistery has to be one of the best well-known PUA, and several students’ introduction to the game, and to respect that fact shows much more class.
Comment by ItalianJob on 7 July 2008:
I mean to type “Mystery”, not “Mistery”
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